Lenoir engine

[Johan van ZantenParticipant @johanvanzanten]

___Hi all,

I like to make a model of a Lenoir engine. This is a double acting non compression engine designed to use town gas. I like to make this very early IC engine in a handsome scale with, like the prototype, electric ignition. As town gas is no longer available I have to use another gas like propane, carbide gas or even hydrogen.

Has any of our readers some experience with this type of non compression engines and wants to share this with me?

[Johan van ZantenParticipant @johanvanzanten]

[William RobertsParticipant @williamroberts98085]

Johan, I dont like the sound of you using hydrogen as a gas to run your engine on ? Pure hydrogen is safe but any air added to it makes it an explosive mixture , be very careful and play safe.

Regards Bill.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I would have thought hydrogen would be no worse than any other flammable gas if you generate it as you need it using an electrolytic cell.

I think propane is abit fussy about the stoichiometric ratio (gas:air) compared to many 'old fashioned' gases, so it may make an engine that's already tricky to run even harder.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I think mixing gas and air to make an explosive mixture is rather the idea behind the internal combustion engine. However there is perhaps a point in that a regular IC engine requires a 'slow explosion' to avoid shocks to the system. This is why petrol engines are run 'rich' (excess pertrol to air) to avoid the explosive detonation known as 'pinking'.

A plain hydrogen / air mix might burn rather faster than the old CO/H2 mix of town gas and shake your model to bits. However small scale wood gas plants are coming back into use as research is done by the alternative energy sector.

[Charlie,Participant @charlie18171]

Hi Johan,How do you propose to produce cabide gas?It has been longer than 40 years since i was able to buy sealed tins of carbide cinders for use in lamps etc,Is it still available in this country?? And is it legal,??

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

A look on google suggests it may still be available from some cavers' suppliers.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A good many years back I made a set up to produce coal gas, with the coal in a 1 gallon paint tin, this sat on an electric hot plate, and the gas was just taken off the top, a purifieing system would help. As it was only an experiment, it fed a small bunsen burner, it would proberbly supply enough for a small motor. I think the coal gas is much less fussy than the gasses the we use now. Ian S C ps I was looking for a fuel for my hot air engines.

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Coal gas as it comes out of the retort is more than 35 % tarry substances . Needed to go through some heavy duty cleaning up plant before it was released for use . There was a whole industry set up to make useful products (including more gas by cracking) out of the horrible sludge left over . The other byproduct , coke , was clean enough to use as is .

Many early gas engines in out of town location were run on Producer gas which was made locally in what must have been some fearsome equipment . There were a few attempts at a Suction gas engine directly coupled to a gas generator which made a single charge of gas on each suction stroke .

For a model which is not too small Butane would seem a good choice for first experimens .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Lenoir used one of his engines to run a 3 wheeled carriage in the mid 1800s (a bit slower than walking) and used hydrogen as the fuel. Is nothing new as we are talking of hydrogen as the real fuel of the future for personal transport as well as for fusion energy! and here!

I believe that electric cars are a bit of a dead end until we can produce mini fusion reactors to generate the stuff on board.

Best Regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 28/10/2012 16:11:53

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Tery,

We or rather they are having enough problems producing a sustainable fusion reactions in the present setup, I somehow doubt the mini version

K

[Johan van ZantenParticipant @johanvanzanten]

Hi all,

To answer Charlie's question: In the Netherlands they sell carbide at the end of the year in some garden shops and it is used to "celebrate" the new year. ( you have to ask for mole exterminator ). I use it for some years to run my Otto and Langen engine. I made a developer from PVC drain pipe material and this works fine for a small engine. You don't even smell it. I don't have an English explanation for the numbers on the drawing at hand but I can translate the text if you are interested.

Regards, Johan.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by KWIL on 28/10/2012 16:37:56:

Tery,

We or rather they are having enough problems producing a sustainable fusion reactions in the present setup, I somehow doubt the mini version

K

Hi Kwil,

It's easy, All they have to do is to get the full size one working and then use a de-bigulator (Simpsons 4F02 – Treehouse of Horror VIII) on it to shrink it to fit into an Automobile. SImple

Best regards

Terry

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

Whether you are inclined towards optimism or pessimism with regard to electric cars I suspect you will find the 2012 Tesla Model S of some interest:

**LINK**

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

With the way fuel prices car insurance and road taxes are going in Britain and with the state of many roads now, I think the UK City vehicle of the future is known as a Donkey

Edited By Ady1 on 30/10/2012 10:57:48

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Niloch on 30/10/2012 10:29:47:

Whether you are inclined towards optimism or pessimism with regard to electric cars I suspect you will find the 2012 Tesla Model S of some interest:

**LINK**

Hi N,

I've seen them, but at what price in the UK. How long will the batteries last and what replacement cost. Further, the overall pollution of an electric car through it's whole life i.e from manufacture to scrapping, can be similar to that of a similar diesel car apparently in some circumstances, The manufacturers deny this of course!

Although the Tesla has a creditable 300 mile range, when visiting my son over 350 miles away I'd have to sit for a couple of hours in a charging station. Fusion reactors are the way to go – perhaps not! I'll just have to wait untl the hydrogen cell is in production although the rush to electricity may stall that now

Regards

Terry

[Johan van ZantenParticipant @johanvanzanten]

Hi  Terryd, Niloch, Kwil and Ady1,

It certainly is an interesting discussion but what has it to do with a model Lenoir engine? Isn't it a better idea to start a new topic ?

Edited By Johan van Zanten on 30/10/2012 15:49:33

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Johan,

That seems to be the way of this forum when a thread goes dead on it's original message. At least it is a way of keeping a thread alive otherwise it would disappear off the bottom of the active list on the home page.

Besides, I've not seem many people posting, and the odd off thread comment wouldn't stop others posting any Lenoir contribution they wish, but it seems not many have anything to contribute, at least at the moment – I hope they will. But I will stay off your thread, I hope it doesn't die.

Terry

[Author]

Posts