Learning to Weld…

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

… in a different way!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

As someone who is learning MIG welding in a very practical way, I couldn't believe this when i found it on the Boxford website:

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That's how the Chinese will be building Hinkley Point.

Virtually perfect welds.

MichaelG.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

or you could practise by winding a loop through a buzzer wire. Ive not tried this but I honestly dont think it would be much use to anyone other than highlighting how unsteady your grip is. Can you get it ont xbox??

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Interesting, although the TIG welding seems to be going backwards (30 seconds in). Possibly the least of your worries if you are starting out….

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Neil, Welding is mainly a simple manual skill, these videos are of limited use TBH. You are learning in the best possible way, by actually doing it. I assume you have no wish to work on gas pipelines? If that is the case, just carry on, and watch the welding websites if you have a problem. The only welding I was actually taught at college was oxy-acetylene. and that was a very brief safety talk about gasses and bottles, followed by a few hours practical training. One tip I will give you is try with and without your prescription glasses, I am short sighted, but weld without mine!

Phil

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

A friend of mine (Paul) is converting an old Z1300 motorbike into a turbo one. Another friend of ours (Dan) is a welder in the nuclear industry. And it is him that is doing the welding together of the pipes to feed the turbo and then onto the plenum chamber etc.

My part has been to make the stubs that fit to the cylinder head and flange plates to hold them there.

The other night we got together to make sure we were all driving down the same road for this project. Dan has made himself a jig and fitted the headers I made to it. He has made an initial start on the welding using NAG pipe and bends. (a kind of stainless)

He was telling us that when welding they are not allowed to 'put a finger down' to steady their hand as that will introduce contamination into the weld. Likewise if they 'dip the tip' the weld is scrapped as it will have been contaminated with tungsten. ……….. I am wondering if the same quality control will be ensured when our Asian friends build this new station. Carbon steel is also totally banned from sites and a violation is an instant sacking.!

Anyway, here are a few images I took with my phone of welds he had done so far. – I am of zero knowledge about welding but apparently even though the TIG weld is made on the outside of the pipe it penetrates and welds up on the inside. No idea how.?

Dan tells me he is handy at TIG welding copper. And has in previous jobs made quite a number of pressure vessels out of such. Looks like I will be buying my 'new best friend' considerable beer when its big-boiler-time for me.!

Nick

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

I like the scallops in those welds Nick – I pulled a face when I watched the virtual stick welding. They should have got a welder in to do it.

I tried mig but don't like it. It's too easy to not really weld at all. So it's stick for me but the inverter I have will do tig.

John

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[RainbowsParticipant @rainbows]

I suppose it might be usefull to introduce a 13 year old in a school D&T department to it without the worries of them stabbing someone with a red hot electrode.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

or scratching an itch on their face as i once did…oh it hurt ansd its there forever

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/10/2015 17:39:20:

That's how the Chinese will be building Hinkley Point.

Virtually perfect welds.

MichaelG.

I hope it's better than the virtual way grinding and virtual scraping on old mate Brian's Chinese lathe.

Here is one view of how it's done

Edited By Hopper on 23/10/2015 02:26:02

[mick70Participant @mick70]

Mig is pretty easy to learn on.

Have got got some ron covell dvds you can borrow if you want.

Also look on mig welding.co.uk .

My 7 yr old boy is good little welder.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'm misunderstood – I came across the video by accident!

It looks incredibly noddy – if clever – and reminds me of the poor kids who have to do their chemistry experiments on a computer screen.

What would be very interesting would be to find out how people introduced on the simulator get on when introduced to a real world welding. No-one questions that modern fighter pilots greatly benefit from training on VR.

My criticism of the video is it only shows people producing near-perfect welds – I would be more convinced if they had shown it simulating what happens if the users make errors.

Neil

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

It does nothing to show what happens when you try your first electric weld ever, that first crack makes you jump, well it did me.

Video is fine, anyone can make pefect welds first time Ha Ha, practice makes perfect in any field.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

" I am of zero knowledge about welding but apparently even though the TIG weld is made on the outside of the pipe it penetrates and welds up on the inside. No idea how.?"

It's called Argon backing, the pipes are filled with Argon which shields the inside of the joint and allows a smooth joint.

Difficult to convince BR designers that bog paper wont pick up on weld "Spikes" inside a welded Stainless Steel effluent system on Locos.

Regards Ian.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Presumably the camera captures what you are doing and tells you how to better position the torch, rods etc, where you are going wrong / what to improve next in your torch action etc. It must use clever(??) software to figure out where everything is and what should happen next. Simply making cartoon videos obviously wouldn't normally count as "augmented reality".

Not v impressive website in terms of telling you about the product and I didn't see any open pricing. I bet most people looking at the website don't understand what they are looking at.

I suspect it's one of those clever wheezes that they reckon will be a real money spinner but don't really know how it will sell and for how much. Probably angling for school / college training contracts I suspect. Do they still teach metalwork at school??

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

Stick welding, in my circle of friends, is affectionately known as "Hum-splat" welding.

Don't ask me why

Regards.

David.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Muzzer, I suspect they teach CAD (=cardboard aided design), afterall you might cut yourself on that nasty sharp metal.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by David Colwill on 23/10/2015 10:20:40:

Stick welding, in my circle of friends, is affectionately known as "Hum-splat" welding.

Hum-splat-yank-curse welding here!

I need a special torch with an extra powerful grip for ripping rods off the work

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Muzzer on 23/10/2015 10:10:29:

Presumably the camera captures what you are doing and tells you how to better position the torch, rods etc, where you are going wrong / what to improve next in your torch action etc. It must use clever(??) software to figure out where everything is and what should happen next. Simply making cartoon videos obviously wouldn't normally count as "augmented reality"

My understanding is that the image on the monitor is what is seen through the 'welding helmet' – all those different little patterns are obviously used by the software to know how everything is oriented.

Neil

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

The trouble with stick welding is the striking voltage. It needs to be good bit higher than the working voltage and on many it's just not high enough to make it easier. I'd guess it comes down to transformer cost. If some one buys the old style ones that's the thing to check. Get one where it's as high as possible. They do vary. I haven't done any for ages as no need but due to a vat free event bought an ac / dc fairly low power unit and am hoping that the striking voltage is adequate. It should be via an inverter. Rumour has it that these can be used with a tig torch. I might try it one day, welding without a filler rod. Having spent some hours trying to master welding 1/4" aluminium plate this way I know that very little current is actually needed to go to full depth. I doubt if much more is needed for steel either. The problem with aluminium is that the arc has to be moved more quickly as the metal heats up – one day I might get it right, Trouble is it would be my own plate rather than scrap bits at work.

I work colleague set up his own business making welders and did pretty well. It read settings from a bar code stuck on the job. He used an automotive spark coil to strike the arc. Maybe that could be added to a transformer type.

John

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[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Circlip on 23/10/2015 10:06:41:

It's called Argon backing, the pipes are filled with Argon which shields the inside of the joint and allows a smooth joint.

Regards Ian.

.

Cheers Ian,

Thinking about it he did mention that it tube was gas filled. He also mentioned that NAG stainless was a joy to weld compared to other grades of stainless metals.

Cheers, Nick

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

The first thing i noticed was they are welding bacwards with the mig and tig .

The second thing inoticed is they seem to be free standing and the first thing my tech teacher taught me was to brace myself any way i could , sit down ,lean against something use both hands on the mig and stick welders etc.

In the real world conditions are seldom perfect and i don't know how that programme would show stick welding rod when it nibs on you ( a small peice of the flux coating breaks off one side of the rod ) this causes the arc to blow out to one side ,usually causes a slag hole and loss of penetration .

So what do you do ?

Stop, clean the weld crater up and do a restart . Peg that rod in the bin mand check the next rod for cracked flux coating .

What does the computer do ? Probably nothing!

Ian

[alan frostParticipant @alanfrost17805]

Just a mild reproof. This seems a good and useful video to me, I believe many welding instructors recommend running a weld with the power off as initial practice and this seems an advance on that.

The mild reproof is the posts making cracks at the Chinese. Reminds me a bit of years back when I was an apprentice in Rugby and we used to attend occasionally the motor cycle racing at Silverstone. This was the early sixties and Hondas were just appearing initially with little success. Very soon race results were Honda first,second and third. Eventually I believe the Association of British Motorcycle Manufacturers belatedly took a Honda to pieces and were astonished to find it was built like a watch. We all know what happened next.

The Chinese are now well into the "what happened next stage" and I don't think we need be unduly worried by what happens at Hinckley Point. What is worrying is how slowly some of us get the point.

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi Alan

A touch of Frost!

Yes its already happened. The third world is getting better at making things. Not sure where the Fourth world will be? Someone has to do the menial work. Japan is a good example of where China is heading. Japan has a population of 127 Million. China 1.3 Billion, we are being run over by a Juggernaut.

Will China maintain Dollar Yuan exchange rate at the currently artificially low ratio? or will it follow post war Japan allowing their exchange rate to rise? right now this is unlikely, business is depressed, they plan five years ahead anyway, they can wait; but for how Long? Not that long I suspect.

Free (Sic) trade has decimated Manufacturing. It would be Ironic if in the end we have to pay the piper. Will our cheap goods stay cheap?

Oh I forgot! We now have to concentrate on Services and High Tech. RIP Manufacturing. Well that's what the Politicians tell us……

Regards
John

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