LBSC “Dot”

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

I have at long last, progressed my LBSC Dot build to the missing build detail of running boards, cab dimensions and the loco – tender drawbar.

The narrative and plans of both the loco and the tender do not show a drawbar nor provide a clue of the fittings required.

Would someone be so kind as to give me a clue of what the drawbar looks like and how I may work out it's length and connections.

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Working on the non mentioned topics

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Oh dear – these bits must “unmentionables”

John

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Hello John,

As no-one else has attempted to assist you here are my thoughts ->

For the drawbar of "Dot" I think that you will find that a piece of 3/32" x 1/4" wide flat bar will do the job. It could be connected by 1/8" diameter pins at each end dropping centrally through the horizontal part of the respective drawbars. You can provide a lower support to the pin as well if you prefer by simply brazing in a short length of 1/2" wide by 3/32" thick flat centrally along the lower edge of each drawbar parallel to the upper surface and drilling through from above. You may need to laterally slightly 'waist' the middle portion of the drawbar to provide side clearance in the 1/2" wide drawbar slots. This depends on the minimum track curvature you intend your locomotive to pass.

Similarly I think that you will find the LBSC didn't specify a length of loco/tender drawbar as once again this depended on the minimum track curvature that the locomotive had to go round. I'm afraid that it is down to a bit of experimentation as to what is the shortest length allowing sensible clearance between locomotive and tender on the tightest curves and that still 'looks right'.

Regards & best of luck,

Phil

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Thanks Phil.

I’ll work with this.

J

[WearyParticipant @weary]

A further thought:

You could make a box section drawbar by centrally brazing in a short section of the 1/2" 'L' material left over from the drawbar the opposite way round to the drawbar. I suggest this as an 'option' only as it may actually be easier to set this up and hold for brazing than a single piece of flat bar.

The drawbar itself can be any material that you might have available but obviously limited to 3/32" thick unless you open out the slots. The 1/4" width is the minimum, but again you can use anything suitable that you might have i.e. 3/32" x 5/8". If it is much wider than 1/4" it will almost certainly need 'waisting' between the securing pins – but that is hardly a big job.

I'm afraid that LBSC left these sort of details to the builder to sort out. Provided it works it is good!

Phil

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Thanks again Phil.

I have had a GOOD look at the plans with my workbook close at hand. This is what I came up with. The bracket material looked the same thickness as the loco frame (1.6mm – 1/16&quot. There wasn't any lower bracket for the drag-pin mentioned previously. With some head scratching, I measured out a piece of 1/16 and cut & bent into the shape shown in the red sketch on the part plan. When it is a bit further progressed – through trial and error as I am on the second cutting and bending – I will post a picture.

J

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Very nice elegant 'solution' to the drawbar pin lower bracket.

Regards,

Phil

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Here are the pictures.

[John Irvine 1Participant @johnirvine1]

Dear Mr Penfold

I hope you don't mind me "hijacking" an old thread of yours on the ME forum, but it seemed the best lead for me to try and get some more information.

I have been looking for information on a model locomotive which I inherited from my Grandfather many years ago. Unfortunately, when I received it in the 70's it wasn't in the best of condition and it was "tarted up" to look a bit more respectable by my father, and then placed inside a glass case which was made especially for it. While it sits nicely on its single piece of rail track in my study, I've always wondered what it looked like when first built, but have been unable to find any colour pictures. I have now retired and thought I should make more of an effort to find out more details.

I've managed to find out that it was a model of a black 5 locomotive "LMS 5301" and I remember him calling it a "Little Dot like Doris". Having trawled the internet, I found plans for the model which are still on sale at AJReeves.com but have never seen a photograph. Having then found the book about LBSC by Brian Hollingsworth online (reference in your thread) I found references to Model Engineer for both Doris and Dot. Both seem to have been published in the late 1940's – Doris in 1948 (3.5" guage) and Dot in 1949 (1.75" guage). Is there a way of finding out which issue both of the locos would have been featured, and if so, perhaps getting a digital copy?

I also wondered if you still had the model you completed and if it were possible to see a colour photo to find out what the original livery looked like.

I appreciate this is a bit out of the blue, but would appreciate any info you may have regarding the loco.

Many thanks

John

John J Irvine

[WearyParticipant @weary]

John,

There is a Model Engineer magazine index here. If you put-in dot as the search term and scroll down to 1949 in the results you will see the relevant articles and editions, etc.

There appear to be some subsequent 'mentions', in 1952, '58, '60, & '65. There may be others, I simply had a quick scan of the search results and those 'jumped-out'.

Regards,

Phil

[John Irvine 1Participant @johnirvine1]

Hi Phil

Thanks for your reply and information…much appreciated. I’ll need to look into how I could get a paper/digital copy of the articles highlighted.
Would you have a colour photo of your completed “Dot” or know where I could find one? Sorry

for all the questions but it’s been great being in contact with someone who actually knows the loco, but built ot

into the bargain.

thanks again for your help

john

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Hello Mr Irvine,

There is a (black and white) photograph of 'Dot' in Model Engineer magazine, Volume 106, June 26th 1952, issue number, 2666, page 825 (2/3rd front/side view) and page 826 (underside, locomotive only). Possible sources of this issue of the magazine are ebay, or one of the dealers who supplies back-issues.

The prototype locomotive, as you have discovered, is popularly known as a 'Black 5'. This somewhat gives away the basic colour scheme, which is, well, black all-over (bar buffer-beams, & inside part of frame etc.). Some prototypes carried simple red lining, and later some had the BR red and grey lining-out – I think. You would have to check this. You can of course finish your locomotive in any style that you like should you personally favour more exotic colour-schemes!

Pictures of the prototype and the model 'larger sister' Doris are plentiful on-line. For models you can browse the Station Road Steam archive, although there are no pictures of 'Dot' there are pictures of Doris, simply search 'Doris' or 'black 5', etc., etc. Note that 'Doris' has outside valve-gear, which does not feature on 'Dot' which (conventionally) has slip eccentrics inside the frame driving the outside valves through rocking-shafts.

I have never built 'Dot' so cannot supply any pics I'm afraid. I merely responded to Mr Penfolds' original enquiry and made suggestions as to how he might proceed. This was four years ago now, and I don't know whether Mr Penfold is still a regular visitor here or indeed ever completed his loco.

Regards & best of luck

Phil

[John Irvine 1Participant @johnirvine1]

Thanks for the further information. It’s very much appreciated and will help me gather more info on both models.

thanks again for your help, Phil

john

[John PenfoldParticipant @johnpenfold74932]

Hello John Irvine

I have moved on from those earlier posts. However I still haven’t completed the build and not for lack of trying.
Transforming a handful of paper plans into a running loco made of LOTS of bits is a serious piece of work.
I have finally got the boiler ready for inspection – what a job. The body is almost ready however as I assemble this bundle of bits, I find that there is always another little bit required 😏.

I intend to go the all black with some stripes route as there are lots of images available.

When I have assembled the loco I will post a picture as a mark of progress.
Merry Christmas

John

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