Lathes on casters

[Graham StoppaniParticipant @grahamstoppani46499]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 19/01/2023 17:27:52:

I use castors that have a screw down foot. So best of both worlds, very stable when all four feet are screwed down and easily moved by screwing up the feet.

Andrew.

Ditto

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

My new workshop floor is not that flat, not as flat as I wanted it to be. My S7 cabinet is on the casters that raise and fall a little . I made it into a 3 point contact , with 2 at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. It keeps fairly constant no matter where it is. I make some fairly accurate bits on my lathe and are very happy with it's castor setup.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Pete Rimmer has [predictably enough] described the situation to near-perfection … but let me just add, once again, for the benefit of those struggling with the word Levelling :

In this context, Levelling is a verb describing the use of a ‘Level’ to do the job

The aim is to get things correctly aligned, and a Level is a convenient tool to use

The aim is NOT to get things horizontal [although that is sometimes convenient]

Effectively; levelling describes the process in the same way that Pete would use the word blueing … He uses blue as an aid to finding the high spots, NOT because blue surfaces are intrinsically better !

MichaelG.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Neil Lickfold on 20/01/2023 05:23:29:

My new workshop floor is not that flat, not as flat as I wanted it to be. My S7 cabinet is on the casters that raise and fall a little . I made it into a 3 point contact , with 2 at the headstock end and one at the tailstock end. It keeps fairly constant no matter where it is. I make some fairly accurate bits on my lathe and are very happy with it's castor setup.

I hope you mean 3 point contact at the drip tray not the castors.

I apologise in advance if your immediate reaction is I’m not that daft.

regards Martin

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Ixnay to the whole level shamozzle. Cut straigtht to the test cut chase and get your lathe turning parallel with no engineers level in sight. As per the Myford users manual.

I would mount a Colchester hard to the floor then do this:

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

True as it may be, Hopper … that’s a rather selective quotation.

For a fuller picture, see the posts at the bottom of  : **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=181601

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:06:16

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Perhaps we should say "level up"?

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by John Haine on 20/01/2023 09:06:59:

Perhaps we should say "level up"?

Or maybe not seeing the heated arguments in todays daily papers. 🥴

machine level alignment and turning test alignment would be more descriptive.

regards Martin

[pauljamesParticipant @pauljanes79128]

Level infers that it is parallel with the earths surface. Perhaps "align" is a better word.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:04:42:

True as it may be, Hopper … that’s a rather selective quotation.

For a fuller picture, see the posts at the bottom of : **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=181601

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:06:16

Note my selective quotation begins "If a precision level is not available", which it is not to most home workers. And the Myford engineers level instructions are for a brand new lathe with unworn bed. Using a super sensitive level on a worn bed is a waste of time.

The method I quoted is the only method I use and it works perfectly.

I do use a builder's level to get the bench sloping a few mm back and to one end first, so all the oil in the drip tray runs that way for easy clean up.

Edited By Hopper on 20/01/2023 09:49:30

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 20/01/2023 09:48:04:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:04:42:

True as it may be, Hopper … that’s a rather selective quotation.

[…]

Note my selective quotation begins "If a precision level is not available" […]

.

I did, Hopper

The extra pages were referenced for the benefit of others

… It would be nice if the forum didn’t have to discuss this topic quite so frequently.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[ unintended double-post ]

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 10:24:03

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Hopper on 20/01/2023 09:48:04:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:04:42:

True as it may be, Hopper … that’s a rather selective quotation.

For a fuller picture, see the posts at the bottom of : **LINK**

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=181601

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 09:06:16

Note my selective quotation begins "If a precision level is not available", which it is not to most home workers. And the Myford engineers level instructions are for a brand new lathe with unworn bed. Using a super sensitive level on a worn bed is a waste of time.

The method I quoted is the only method I use and it works perfectly.

I do use a builder's level to get the bench sloping a few mm back and to one end first, so all the oil in the drip tray runs that way for easy clean up.

Edited By Hopper on 20/01/2023 09:49:30

I see what you are getting at with the worn bed comment but effectively the turning test checks the bed at two points which similar to to using a level at those points. The difference as far as I can see is the saddle contact area will tend to reduce the effect of a hollow in say the front way whereas the narrow foot of the level won’t. In addition the standard placement of a machinist level is at the front and end of the bed. The end will not be worn and the very front less so than the middle working area so standard testing would bring the lathe bed to the same or close to the same alignment as when it was ground. If the front way has a hollow the the lathe will turn bellied shapes. Further tweaking can improve this as you say. It’s certainly worth checking with the machine level at a few points down the bed once the ends are set up. It should not be impossible to optimise with a level. However I do tend to agree with you that the acid test is a turning test which by rights should always be done, worn bed or not after using the level to rapidly get into the right ball park. Speed is the main advantage of using a machine level.

That’s my take on it, others may be better informed so feel free to comment.

All this is a long way from castors though.

regards Martin

Edited By Martin Kyte on 20/01/2023 10:31:51

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 10:22:57:

… It would be nice if the forum didn’t have to discuss this topic quite so frequently.

MichaelG.

(Not the topic of casters, that is. But levelling/aligning/ships at sea/worn beds/chestnuts, hoary variety etc etc. )

Edited By Hopper on 20/01/2023 11:03:31

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I’m sorry if I started that hare even by saying implicitly “Oh no not again”

The subject does seem to have a hair trigger, I’m as fed up with it as everyone else.

Sort of ‘don’t mention the war’ Fawltey Towers style.

regards Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

May I suggest that page25 of Schlesinger’s masterwork should be required reading for all participants in the next discussion ?

Here’s an extract, in a handy form to keep:

.

.

We can then all jump-in at one of five places, and opine as we see fit.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm not against old-chestnuts coming up repeatedly because it's in the nature of an internet forum – a bunch of like-minded folk chat in an electronic club. What we typed yesterday, let alone last month, is easily missed by anyone other than regulars, sadly regular readers are bored by repetition. Taking the rough with the smooth, I put up with that, seeing the forum as a way of helping others, even though the same subjects come up over and over again.

The forum is brilliant at answering questions but it's a poor look-up reference, even when the user has super Google-foo skills! Wikipedia is a much better reference, but it doesn't allow questions. If Model Engineers were more organised, we would get the best of both worlds by producing peer-reviewed Wikipedia articles on subjects like levelling and lathe alignment, with links to this forum and others, where people could go for Q&A help.

Unfortunately most of what I know about machining is self-taught. In the absence of Model Engineering information on the web, I read, misread, and misunderstand my random collection of engineering books. Many, many times, I've only understood what a book meant after the point was discussed on the forum. Thanks everyone!

Dave

PS on the subject of casters, I wouldn't unless mobility was really important.  The problem is they reduce rigidity – the lathe will vibrate much more on casters than if it were bolted down on a concrete floor.   But engineering is all about compromise.  I move my lathe with an engine crane, and it's a right pain.  If I had to move it frequently casters, with brakes, and even better jack-stands, would be fitted!

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/01/2023 11:58:31

[SpurryParticipant @spurry]

Some good points made there, Dave. Probably picked what I have learnt, the same way as you.

My only disagreement would be with the wheels on a lathe. Almost everything I make or use has wheels…it's probably an age thing. The wheels possibly could make the lathe less rigid I guess, but if it ever caused a problem, there would have to be a re-think Still, it's been Ok for 38 yrs so far.

Pete

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/01/2023 11:22:06:

May I suggest that page25 of Schlesinger’s masterwork should be required reading for all participants in the next discussion ?

Here’s an extract, in a handy form to keep:

.

.

We can then all jump-in at one of five places, and opine as we see fit.

MichaelG.

Schlesinger's work is for machine tool manufacturers, not home workshops. Makes a simple job harder for the average bodger.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Casters to move it about, but not while in use. Some sort of jacking when in use would help with stability, especially if the jack screws were in front and behind the bed. Lathes are top heavy and not very deep sectioned front to back.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 20/01/2023 21:38:08:

Schlesinger's work is for machine tool manufacturers, not home workshops. Makes a simple job harder for the average bodger.

.

Page25 is about refurbishment

MichaelG.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Mine has 4 castors, but when retracted, it sits on the floor in 3 places. Works a treat.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

What on earth is Schlesinger doing using a spirit level? I thought that was verboten!

I find a pair of winding sticks ( as taught by my woodworking instructor many decades ago.) to be much more satisfactory. For our purposes these can be as simple as two good quality rulers.

In use, set one on edge across the lathe bed at each end. Sight along the lathe bed and any twist will become immediately apparent and can be adjusted out. This method is remarkably accurate ( assuming your sight is OK ) and It doesn't matter whether the lathe is sloping end for end or front to back. This technique will still work.

Pero

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Pero on 21/01/2023 03:48:00:

What on earth is Schlesinger doing using a spirit level? I thought that was verboten!

I find a pair of winding sticks ( as taught by my woodworking instructor many decades ago.) to be much more satisfactory. For our purposes these can be as simple as two good quality rulers.

In use, set one on edge across the lathe bed at each end. Sight along the lathe bed and any twist will become immediately apparent and can be adjusted out. This method is remarkably accurate ( assuming your sight is OK ) and It doesn't matter whether the lathe is sloping end for end or front to back. This technique will still work.

Pero

And if you use three foot rulers it would be even more accurate. Although you might have to allow some for sag over that length, but as both would be the same, alignment should be unaffected when you think about it. Two long pieces of ground tubing would be ideal. Motorcycle fork tubes would be perfect. One on each end of the bed and take a sighting along the ends.

Edited By Hopper on 21/01/2023 05:00:21

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