Lathe vibration in workshop

[BobParticipant @bob17059]

Mass is your friend in this situation. A solid concrete foundation would be the way to go. Assuming you don’t have a maker’s stand weld up a steel bench as heavy as possible and bolt this to the concrete foundation. The bench top could be laminated from 2 x 4 seasoned timbers. Tubal Cain’s book on Workholding in the Lathe should give you some clues on making a bench for your lathe.

 

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

Those feet on the bench seem to put pressure on a very little area are they sitting between the floor joists, if so a length of angle either running along the long side front and back to spread the weight or back to front depending on which way the joists run.

As others have said braces for the bench would be a good idea as well as an extra layer for the top.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Suspect the motor.  My brand new Super 7 vibrated like crazy on the high speed range and was very noisy on the low speed.  I replaced the horrible OEM single phase induction motor with a TEC 3-phase and VFD drive and now it’s smooth as silk.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, not the sort of bench I would put a lathe on, and a chipboard top is not desirable in my opinion, a piece of good quality 18mm thick plywood would have been a better option. The motor noise isn’t much different to my one. Have you tried running the motor without the belts on, which will tell if the motor is the cause of the vibration that you are getting. You could turn the spindle by hand with the belts off, to see if there are any rough spots or noise in the bearing, or any excessive end float.

Regards Nick.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Maybe my point wasn’t clear though it just repeated what others had said.  Why is the lathe vibrating in the first place?  It shouldn’t!  If it is there’s something amiss with it – much better to find what that is and fix it than try to cope with the by-products.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, another thing that may cause vibration, is the grease in the spindle bearings might need replacing, Hobbymatt recommends that it should be changed after around 1800 hours of use, which means stripping it down and cleaning all the old grease out and replacing with new, but if you don’t know how to do this, you may need to get it done by someone who is confident in doing such things.

Regards Nick.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Im with you there John

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The bench needs to be rigid, in any case.  So brace the back and ends, and reinforce the top, as already advised; at least 15 mm ply (Chipboard might fragment in the future)

Attaching it to the shed walls will allow any noise to “telephone” through, and be more noticeable.

Having made the bench as rigid as possible, look at the belts.

Excessive belt tension can overload, and wear, bearings in the motor, countershaft and spindle.

You need to have enough to allow a little play , halfway between pulleys.

This can be a safety feature; if there is a jam up, the belt can slip, rather bthan stall mthe motor, or damage something.

If the belt has stiffened through age, or has a prominent join, that can cause vibration.

Sometimes fitting a new belt, or link type belt can reduce or banish the vibration and noise.

If you are using changewheels, set with a little backlash.Setting with a sheet of paper in each mesh should suffice.

First set the backlash between Leadscrew gear and Idler.

The swing the banjo to set the backlash between Idler and Spindle gear.

If you are using a compound Idler, set the backlsh between each mesh in the same way.

HTH

Howard

 

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have just watched for the first time (listened to) the video of Mark’s lathe running in his shed.

I’m not sure that the ‘vibration’ is related to the bench, but more the noise itself emanating from within the lathe. With the lathe running continuously in the video we have no frame of reference so have no idea how loud it is.

A belt driven lathe (compared to gear driven one) should be silky smooth and any vibration if present might be due to the motor (less likely if its 3 phase).

Why not post another video with the lathe at different speeds and with the X1 mill running as a comparison.

Ian P

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Watching the video, the changewheels are in mesh.

1) Disengage. Does that reduce the noise level?

2) If it does, reset the backlash.

3) Some of the noise sounds as if it might be the motor. Any problems there, such as excess belt tension

or even loose motor fixings?

As I said, tieing a slightly flexible bench to the shed, will transfer any noise into the structure which provides a larger area to radiate any sound.

Let us know how you get on, please, it may benefit others.

Howard

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

I’m much obliged for all the feedback and suggestions. A changewheel was slightly loose on the lathe which has now been nipped up. I think there is an improvement in the sound of the lathe. It temporarily sits on a B & D WorkMate as the workbench has been commandeered to put together a siezed Tich chassis. In an 8′ x 6′ wooden shed there is very little space for anything but one has to manage. As the workshop is now nearly full to capacity, the lathe doesn’t sound so loud. I have uploaded another video running the Hobbymat lathe and the X1 mill here . Thanks again to all those who took the time to offer their advice.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hopefully, you will reinstall the lathe on the stiffened bench, and your probnlems will have reduced.

Howard

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

Vibration and noise can be caused by multiple or even combined reasons Mark. For example, you said one of the change gears was loose and been nipped up. Ok, how did you determine the gear mesh was then correct? If you bottomed out the teeth in both gears and tightened them in that position. I can assure you that isn’t correct and may be just part of your extra noise issue. Spur gears require at least some clearance or that noise and more importantly, far higher gear tooth wear rates become a problem. There not designed for nor were they ever intended to operate with zero clearance. A simple solution is to use a gauge to set that clearance. Tear one sheet of standard printer paper into 1″ wide strips. Use one of those between the two gears while pressing them together and then tighten the gears in that position.

Normal printing paper is usually around .003″ thick. It’s a cheap and easy way to ensure that there is some clearance between those change gear teeth. You could tighten that up even more with thinner paper if you think the .003″ is a bit too much. Many cigarette rolling papers and the one’s I sometimes use for edge or tool tip finding are as thin as .001″. I always use a paper gauge when changing any lathe gears or when re-engaging the first gear on the banjo with fixed gear on the spindle. It’s an old method, but it’s a bit surprising just how many have never heard of doing it that way before. And it’s certainly not unknown that with some off shore produced lathe change gears, there bores may sometimes not be truly concentric with the gear teeth. So for anything like that, then even more clearance is going to need to be used.

Tracking down the exact reasons for unexplained noise or vibration can be tough. The best tool for that would be what’s known as a mechanics stethoscope. There really no different than the medical profession uses. But a good substitute (WHILE BEING VERY CAREFUL ABOUT ANY ROTATING PARTS) is to just use a very large screwdriver. Place the screwdrivers tip on the area your checking and the end of it’s handle touching the inside of your ear. Moving the tip around can detect if the noise or vibration is increasing or decreasing. You can then narrow down fairly quickly where the source of that noise or vibration is coming from. In a pinch, I’ve even used a hammer and it’s handle to do exactly the same. But a screwdriver is a bit more sensitive.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I find this thread a little difficult to fathom as the parts for a lathe are all turned so are basically balanced, so its a procerss of elimination of parts that are added to the basic machine that are giving the problem IMHO.

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

They may be turned and some even finish ground Bernard, that doesn’t necessarily mean there perfectly balanced. Especially with any iron or cast steel parts. And depending on the OEM’s quality, + – tolerance etc. A parts exact concentricity to the rest of it’s features might be anything. Only the OP is going to be able to nail down the exact causes.

 

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

When all I had for a workshop was a wooden shed, a 6′ x 12′ pent, I cut a rectangle in the floor and filled it with a good mix of concrete. I then rawl anchored the lathe stand to this concrete plinth. Admittedly the lathe and stand were Myford but the lathe had never ‘vibrated’ in my previous workshop which was then the back bedroom of a small terraced house with a tongue and groove wooden floor. As someone has already stated, a lathe or any other machine tool,  for that matter, should not ‘vibrate’ if it is running correctly but should just ‘purr’ when not under load and ‘hiss’ when cutting commences, IMO.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, the noise that Mark’s motor is making , is very much the same that mine makes, as I’ve said before, but mine sounds loader, but of course you can only compare noise volume by measuring it, but mine does have that same background whine as Mark’s has. I think the aluminium construction  and shape, probably makes the motor louder, but it might be possible to damping it down a bit with sound absorbing panel pads. The original Hobbymat change gears are plastic, and don’t produce very much noise volume when fitted correctly.

Regards Nick.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

So what feedback have we had?  Has disengaging, or changing the backlash on the changewheels had any effect?

It would be nice to know, of any of the advice has improved the situation.

If a lathe has a pin to disengage the drive from the spindle, for when back gear is to be engaged, the bull wheel will be a little out of balance, but unlikely to be enough to cause severe vibration.

Howard

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

I am grateful for all the comments and advice. With the Tich still in pieces on the workbench, I have little space to accomplish any major work on the lathe. I have made a few fittings on the lathe to test the Tich on air, and besides the vibration, albeit not as much as before, as the workshop is now replete with equipment, there don’t appear to be any issues. In time, I will probably replace the chipboard workbench top with a more solid alternative, run through some of the suggestions when the lathe finds its rightful home again, and see if the vibration decreases. If so, I’ll be pleased to post an update. Mark

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

 

If a lathe has a pin to disengage the drive from the spindle, for when back gear is to be engaged, the bull wheel will be a little out of balance, but unlikely to be enough to cause severe vibration.

Howard

Hi Howard, there is no back gear on the Hobbymat MD65, although there was/is a slow-speed attachment available, and Tony at Lathes can supply it sometimes, but I doubt it would make the lathe vibrate, unless it was badly fitted.

Mark, if there is any end float in the spindle, that may cause a bit of vibration, but of course if it doesn’t turn freely, that will also likely to make it vibrate.

Regards Nick.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

That rules out one possible cause, so further investigation needed.

But, I wonder is it vibration that shakes the bench and shed, or just the noise of the machine?

We all have different levels of acceptability.

Howard

[Author]

Posts