Lathe vibration in workshop

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

Hello,

I’ve fitted a new workbench in my workshop and secured it to the side of the shed with a wooden batten. The batten is secured to the bench and the shed. Unfortunately, when I run the lathe it vibrates the workbench and oscillates through the side of the shed. Has anyone found a rubber mat under the lathe or similar material helpful under these circumstances?

Many thanks.

Mark

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Benches need to be quite hefty to prevent vibration and need to be standing on a solid floor. It sounds as though you have wooden workshop walls I might guess even a garden shed type of thing. Bolting the bench to the wall isn’t going to do an awful lot for you unless things are pretty sturdy. Anti vibration feet may help but only if the floor is solid ie concrete or very thick boards.

Have a look at setting up a workshop on my website, benches are part way down the first page. It may (or may not) help.

John

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

check the drive belt.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

A photo would help.  Cure might be as simple as cross-bracing the bench.  Unlikely a rubber mat will help if the bench isn’t rigid enough.

Dave

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Sounds like the lathe is rattling more than it should.

As Bernard suggests check the belts

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

Much obliged for the responses. It is a ubiquitous wooden shed. The flooring is standard with 18mm OSB sheets on top.

Here is the video link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pqb52e3qornaer8nnbwmw/Lathe.MOV?rlkey=0kg008m8bqwxdu1dgavf07b8c&st=mmq4455c&dl=0

I’ve checked the belt and it seems tight. The workbench which the lathe sits on is a Machine Mart CWB300LS heavy duty workbench. Here is the link: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cwb300ls-heavy-duty-workbench-with-shel/ . It supports heavy loads but the steel legs are not all that rigid hence the reason I fixed a wooden batten at the back of the bench and secured it to the inside wall of the shed.

I think it is going to be a question of trial and error!

Many thanks.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

That 15mm worktop is going to reverb like a drum. Maybe add another layer of 16mm ply or MDF etc or some even thicker countertop.

Plus cross braces underneath where the machines mount so the framework takes the weight, not the worktop skin.

Then add diagonal braces to the legs to make it more rigid so you can uncouple it from the wall so the wall is not amplifying the noise.

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

As Hopper says, it’s all a bit lightweight and springy. Another layer of 18mm OSB on the bench top (or two layers) will help quite a bit. The legs look very flimsy perhaps stiffen them up a bit by screwing some 50mm square timber inside the angle. The wall may help a bit but is in itself a bit lightweight to add much rigidity. Perhaps consider screwing more 18mm OSB to the wall behind the lathe.

John

[Mark Salzedo 1]

On Mark Salzedo 1 Said:

Much obliged for the responses. It is a ubiquitous wooden shed. The flooring is standard with 18mm OSB sheets on top.

Here is the video link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pqb52e3qornaer8nnbwmw/Lathe.MOV?rlkey=0kg008m8bqwxdu1dgavf07b8c&st=mmq4455c&dl=0

I’ve checked the belt and it seems tight. The workbench which the lathe sits on is a Machine Mart CWB300LS heavy duty workbench. Here is the link: https://www.machinemart.co.uk/p/clarke-cwb300ls-heavy-duty-workbench-with-shel/ .

Many thanks.

The point about the belt in nothing to do with tension.

Rubber goes hard with age and sunlight and sometimes belts take a set if they get left for months on end, which is why cars stored for years need new tires as the flat from standing won’t come out and you get a rhythmic thump.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

the simple fact is lathes dont vibrate especially when in standard trim eg 3 jaw and round stock, how do you think we manage to turn things with accuracy.

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

Make and fit a set of legs from say 50mmx50mm timber in the form of a frame and fit them under the centre of your bench top beam, as been said your bench top is acting like a sound board

[Mark Salzedo 1]

On Mark Salzedo 1 Said:

[…]

Here is the video link: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/pqb52e3qornaer8nnbwmw/Lathe.MOV?rlkey=0kg008m8bqwxdu1dgavf07b8c&st=mmq4455c&dl=0

[…]

I’ve just watched, and more particularly listened-to, the video

Aside from Machine Mart’s unconvincing use of the term ‘Heavy Duty’ … I would guess that there is a motor fault: it simply sounds wrong !

These are nothing like the noises that I would expect from a wooden panel drumming, and they seem too harsh/edgy to be a panel acting as a sounding-board.

Can you try running the lathe at various speeds, please ?

MichaelG.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Disconnect the leadscrew drive, any better then?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The shed will be too flimsy for any sort of support and the floor is a liability for supporting the lathe. This is not an uncommon situation. Ditch the bench. Saw holes in the shed floor where you want the legs. Hammer Metpost fence post holders for 3in posts into the ground to give a secure foundation independent of the shed. Look around skips where there is a loft conversion in progress and you will find some offcuts of 4×2 and 6×2 for cross bracing the posts, add a ply not MDF nor chipboard top and on top of that plonk a 2x3ft council quality paving slab. One of the shelves upside down can be a drip tray.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Nobody has said anything about paying attention to balancing the work on the lathe—that might be more appropriate after the improvement work that has already been suggested.

Brian

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

Many thanks for all the advice. I’m going to take time to think through the best way forward as it is unclear at the moment. But I am grateful for the suggestions. I wish it were quite straight forward but it’s probably going to be more time-consuming than I hoped for. Such is life!

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Ummm, a number of factors I suspect.

The bench I think is one of these?

It’s not very stiff, easily improved by cross-bracing, or firmly bolting plywood panels to sides and back.  The panels resist front-back and side to side movement.

The worktop looks very thin, and may be acting as a drum or sounding board.  I’d add a bit of kitchen worktop, screwed from underneath to provide weight and rigidity.   Super cheap DIY store worktop will do, and you might get lucky if a neighbour is having their kitchen done up : skip full of old worktop for the having.

The feet are a little flimsy, but hey!

I’ve listened to the video too.  Does sound slightly odd, bit clicky, but that could be the recording.  Microphones tend to add colour.  Belt tension too high, or perhaps the change gears are over-tightly meshed.  Both adjustments. What does it sound like with:

1. the leadscrew disengaged, and then
2. the change gears disabled by removing the one at the top (connecting to the spindle,)

Another possibility is that the motor isn’t quite square with or positioned in line with the pulley.  This twists the belt, maybe causing the rubber to visibly fray, as well as labouring / ticking sounds.  Also an adjustment, bolts under the motor.

I see the lathe is a HobbyMat, so circa 1965 to 1980, and been round the block a few times.  Is it new to you?  If not, did it make that noise before?   Older machines are more liable to faults like worn bearings, a set in the belt, or a motor full of swarf.  Though I suspect the bench is acting as a sounding board, amplifying the noise, we might have to worry about the lathe itself.

Congratulations on a neat job setting up the workshop – you deserve a better result!

Dave

[Stuart Smith 5Participant @stuartsmith5]

Is it doing this at all speeds? I bought a lathe which vibrated just at around one speed. I never found out the cause but it was eventually exchanged by the supplier. I suspect the spindle was out of balance and it vibrated at its resonant frequency. Could yours have the same problem?

 

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

If you stood a good lathe on any old bench and ran it like you have all you would get is a hum and the sound of gears.

As it is it sounds like Long John Silver running to his treasure and it still will sound the same on a concrete floor. All the bench is doing is making it louder.

[Dave Halford]

On Dave Halford Said:

If you stood a good lathe on any old bench and ran it like you have all you would get is a hum and the sound of gears.

As it is it sounds like Long John Silver running to his treasure and it still will sound the same on a concrete floor. All the bench is doing is making it louder.

I think Dave is optimistic about how little noise a ‘good lathe’ makes!    But he suggests a good test: what does this HobbyMat sound like when run on a concrete floor?   If much quieter, that suggests the bench is amplifying an ordinary noise level, cure stiffening the bench as described in various posts above.

If nothing else worked, and the lathe is very noisy on concrete, time to look for lathe faults.   The noises we hear in the video are suspicious, maybe a motor problem.   If it has brushes, are they OK?    Otherwise could be anything from a damaged bearing, to swarf/dirt in the impeller, or swarf that’s got deep into the motor.  A strip clean might fix it.  Worst case, as this is a relatively old machine, it’s possible the motor is badly damaged and will have to be replaced.   But don’t jump to conclusions yet because the evidence isn’t conclusive.

Dave

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

[…]  But he suggests a good test: what does this HobbyMat sound like when run on a concrete floor?   If much quieter[…]

Funny you should mention that, Dave

Having worked, long ago, in a vibration test-house … I nearly suggested that running the lathe suspended ‘free-free’ would provide the best baseline reference.

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

I suspect that a lot of hobby lathes vibrate slightly.

If the engage / disengage for back gear is in the Bull Wheel, it will be slightly outb of balance, which will become more noticeable at high speed.

However, assuming that the work is in balance (Round / hexagon bar in a 3 jaw) if the bench is flimsy, any vibration will not be damped out.

Eccentric or irregular work held in a 4 jaw, or on a faceplate will be out of balance, so keep speeds low.  This is kinder to the headstock bearings, since the out of balance forces increase by square law (So double speed = 4 x forces!).

As Hopper said, make the bench as stiff as possible, (Doubling the thickness of the benchtop will increase its stiffness by a factor of 8) but also make the entire bench as stiff as posible with sturdy legs and diagonal braces, at the ends and back. If need be, panel in the ends and back, with stiff material.  Hardboard is relatively weak, but will help. Metal would be better.

Better to be “too rigid”, if that’s possible, rather than not enough.  Which is why you sometimes see the advice to fix the bench to a solid concrete floor.

If the floor is suspected of being flexible. spread the load, ( Supplementary flooring under the bench feet / Angle irons, to spread the load across a greater area, and to add stiffness.

HTH

Howard

[Mark Salzedo 1Participant @marksalzedo1]

Thank you for all the good advice. It is much appreciated. I’m going to check the Hobbymat for any faults before major work on the workbench. The Hobbymats, albeit small, are well-made, lovely little lathes, they cut well (with the right tools), and for the size are remarkably rigid and precise.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

The suggestion for attaching plywood panels to the ends and back of the bench would be the  first thing I would do. They would stiffen the bench and might be the answer. A heavier top would also help, adding inertia, if you could get hold of a 10mm thick steel plate cut to the size of the bench top for the lathe to bolt to would also be good, but expensive, unless a scrap metal dealer happened to have something.

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

The belts on a Hobbymat don’t need to be very tight..

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