Lathe improvements?

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

I gave a very well performing Boxford away and got a new and younger WM 250 six speed lathe.

 

 

It has got a VFD and a stone to sit on.Plus a much better compound slide arrangement.

A M16 Unbrako 12.9 bolt has had its head reduced 2mm in diameter and surface is at least as good as the Boxford can do.

It has a spindle with 21mm hole and MC3.

I want to have 27mm hole and ER40 instead.

I have slowly to admit that parts are getting to heavy.

A WM 180 has entered my house and will be put on stone and get a VFD plus AC motor.

 

It is intended to make it turn better than Boxfor or WM250.

Stripped for most parts You can se that the bed-headstock has rigidity as a wet newspaper

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 18/04/2019 17:21:04

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 18/04/2019 17:23:41

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 18/04/2019 17:26:28

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Old man playing with lathes.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

The dog demanded walking so I did not finish within the edit allowed window.

Why bother with new chineese when world is full of old My- and Boxfords?

First thing i try is putting my MC3 testbar in spindle as shown on the first (Boxford) picture

On the WM 250 on stone there is no runout close to headstock on my Swiss Tesatast.

On the bar far end it has moved 0.005 mm out and oscilates plus minus 0.005mm.

The WM180 straigth out of box and no stone is still zero close to headstock and 0.01 plus minus 0.008.

The 0.01mm stationary error can easily be shimmed away when it meets its stone.

Concavity on the WM250 facing two 100mm disc are around 0.01mm each.

The WM180 is around double but still concave.

The bedways are definately harder than on Boxfords.

The WM250 was 850€ from Holland and the 180 was in Denmark ca 1000€.

Both came with three and four jaw,faceplate and two steadies.

I will use the 250 to make a new bigger spindle for the 180

Am getting older so it is some kind of race.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 18/04/2019 18:58:06

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 18/04/2019 18:54:12:

Am getting older so it is some kind of race.

Look on the bright side Niels, you have no shortage of headstones…

Neil

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 18/04/2019 19:32:37:

Look on the bright side Niels, you have no shortage of headstones…

Neil

Good guess.

Plan is to have Diabas+WM180 slowly revolving (Solar array of course) on my grave.

Text on stone:

Remember to lube .

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/04/2019 05:42:32

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Have turned a new spindle partly and wait for parts.

One more bearing 32908 62 40 15 mm and a 50 and a 100 teeth wheels from

Cheap gears

The original spindle gear is 40 teeth module one and leadscrew 80 teeth.

 

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 16/05/2019 15:22:52

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 16/05/2019 15:24:11

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 16/05/2019 15:39:38

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

The new spindle is in and turns freely.

Two  new 50 and 100 teeth gears, that can go instead of present 40 on spindle and 80 on leadscrew, has arrived and are nice.

I would have preferred new gears in Delrin from You_ Engraving (Ebay) but I have lost his address and Ebay is not very helpfull establishing direct contact.

It has  sent me thinking and the other possibillity is to have synchro belt from spindle to a lower idler that also has the existing 40 gear wheel and then makes further changes unnessecary.

Advice sougth please because there is a small devil that tells me to put electric leadscrew on instead of all this medival clockwork technology .

Electric leadscrew

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:51:48

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:53:20

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

nowt wrong with clockwork…..

damm electric will be the death of all or at least electronics will….hahaha…

Niels, nice work, oh, to have a shop that clean……mmmmmm

hahaha……

[Andy CarruthersParticipant @andycarruthers33275]

There’s a chap just started a series on DIY ELS on YouTube – search for Clough42, makes very interesting viewing. He explains the issues very well and is developing the series as he goes, for example, has moved on from stepper to hybrid stepper / servo motor. I’m waiting for him to complete the series then either purchase a kit or plans depending upon how he chooses to monetise his IPR. His electronics knowledge is deeper than mine and has already saved me from wasting a lot of time, what’s more, it looks like his software is available under an open source licence

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by clogs on 23/05/2019 19:24:41:

nowt wrong with clockwork…..

damm electric will be the death of all or at least electronics will….hahaha…

Niels, nice work, oh, to have a shop that clean……mmmmmm

hahaha……

 

It is a  living room for a widower.

Only assembly of parts that are  machined in the entry room uniting outher world ,toilet and kitchen.

Clean floor-tiles and 22 degree year round from green district heating (they claim)

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 19:45:35

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 19:50:13

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Andy Carruthers on 23/05/2019 19:26:37:

There’s a chap just started a series on DIY ELS on YouTube – search for Clough42, makes very interesting viewing. He explains the issues very well and is developing the series as he goes, for example, has moved on from stepper to hybrid stepper / servo motor.

I'm awaiting developments on that one also.

Tony

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:42:39:

I would have preferred new gears in Delrin from You_ Engraving (Ebay) but I have lost his address and Ebay is not very helpfull establishing direct contact.

E

There is a 'Contact Seller' link on his listings and as long as you are not trying to deal outside eBay you can ask anything.

In any event there are lots of other sources of ready made gears and pulleys.

Ian P

.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Electronic Lead Screw makes sense in this day and age. Like the difference on a car or motorcycle between points ignition and carburettor vs electronic ignition and fuel injection all controlled by an ECM that knows within a fraction of a degree where the crankshaft is at any time, vis-a-vis throttle position, air pressure, engine load etc etc.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:42:39:

The new spindle is in and turns freely.

Two new 50 and 100 teeth gears, that can go instead of present 40 on spindle and 80 on leadscrew, has arrived and are nice.

I would have preferred new gears in Delrin from You_ Engraving (Ebay) but I have lost his address and Ebay is not very helpfull establishing direct contact.

It has sent me thinking and the other possibillity is to have synchro belt from spindle to a lower idler that also has the existing 40 gear wheel and then makes further changes unnessecary.

Advice sougth please because there is a small devil that tells me to put electric leadscrew on instead of all this medival clockwork technology .

Electric leadscrew

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:51:48

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/05/2019 18:53:20

Colchester Chipmaster has a tooth belt drive from spindle to layshaft for feeding the saddle, but retained gears for screw-cutting. Would it work with tooth belt for screwcutting? Don't see why not, and it would make the lathe a lot quieter, most of the noise from mine is the gears at that end. I think John Stevenson did this mod on his lathe some time ago

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

My Weiss Machinery 180 made its first swarf to day.

A new spindle had its final ER40 cup made minus one mm.

Predrilled hole of 29mm was opened to 39mm in eigth pass at ca 700rpm.

Could not provoke chatter as the small 50mm V belt disc slipped first.

At one round per second I cannot hold the spindle with two hands.

I like it more and more but it is not cheap chineese anymore.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

I have been working quite some hours to make a useable M50*1.5 ER40 thread.

Spindle- material was a cheap end of bar offcut and soft and like water pipe with inclusions of old scrap that is hard as tool steel.

It was quite a learning.The motor torque and power is more than enough for normal cutting and when it hits on of the hard spots spindle stops immidiately and belt slips.

Stopped motor and  applied some brute torque with a C spanner in the spindle  holes close to headstock.

One time  the motor had not stopped (very low noise) and when I was through the hard spot,my guardian angle did her work..

Very ,very nasty.

Future considerations on motor power and rev will exclude motor powered single point screw-cutting.

A handle screwed on end of spindle is the way to go for old fools.

The frame 71 four pole motor turns a 50mm Gates5M belt pulley and spinde pulley is 100mm.

A frame 63 two pole with a 25 mm pulley can then do the same job but wil run two times faster and make more noise.

Will try and compare.

The spindle I am trying to make has 30mm bore full length and is an overkill.

It needs two new bearings, and all the grease seals need modification.The real trouble is the bigger (50 teeth)spindle gear wheel.

If the spindle looks like the lower of these it will only need to have front bearing changed.

Drive system with electronics and the geartrain to leadscrew can  remain as is.

Powered speed range needed for me is 120 to 1200 rpm that can be done with existing DC motor in one step.

I think thats the way to go.

I bougth a MC3 ER40 collet chuck from Arceuro and was not shocked by price.

The factory that made the shown collet chuck/nut can easily make the new spindle for same kind of money.

Material and machining time are identical I think.

It can be a good buissness as there must be many thousands of these mini lathes around.

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 15/07/2019 12:01:19

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 15/07/2019 12:04:04

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Hi Niels,

Nice machining but it must be said that your electrical installation is terrible. This type of connection is just asking for trouble. The power input including the weight of an extension lead is hanging off the conductors. Even worse the earth connection is taking most of the strain. if this come off, even without any other fault the filters in the drive will put your lathe metalwork at 1/2 supply above ground, i.e. 110V AC. Admittedly low current, but even a slight shock around moving machines can cause other injuries as you pull away.

The drive should be in an enclosed box with ventilation protected from swarf and coolant and the power input and motor connections by either proper power connectors or cable glands with strain relief. The enclosure should also incorporate a fuse and suitable EMI filters unless they are included in the drive. I assume this is just a trial set-up but it can electrocute you just as quickly as a final design. Reaching across the motor, pulley and gearing to reach the drive is not great either.

Robert G8RPI.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 15/07/2019 12:52:22:

Hi Niels,

Nice machining but it must be said that your electrical installation is terrible. This type of connection is just asking for trouble. The power input including the weight of an extension lead is hanging off the conductors. Even worse the earth connection is taking most of the strain. if this come off, even without any other fault the filters in the drive will put your lathe metalwork at 1/2 supply above ground, i.e. 110V AC. Admittedly low current, but even a slight shock around moving machines can cause other injuries as you pull away.

The drive should be in an enclosed box with ventilation protected from swarf and coolant and the power input and motor connections by either proper power connectors or cable glands with strain relief. The enclosure should also incorporate a fuse and suitable EMI filters unless they are included in the drive. I assume this is just a trial set-up but it can electrocute you just as quickly as a final design. Reaching across the motor, pulley and gearing to reach the drive is not great either.

Robert G8RPI.

Hello Robert

You are absolutely right and I will do something about it.

This is one of the reasons for wanting to use the original DC thing.

Ideal will be a 48 vol DC motor that can sit where the present DC motor is meant to be.

I d not care for low speed high torque anymore.

Rather turn spindle by hand with all electronics disconnecte when screwcutting

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Judgement day.

I adjusted the compound slide to 8 degree with a Lidl thing for 6£ for good.

Cut cup seat at 1000 rpm.

Put a 24mm RDG test bar in a 25 mm Arceuro ER40 collet and tested for run out.

 

plus minus 0.01mm at far end of bar.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 22/07/2019 14:05:56

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

New love lathe

Serious Lathe for an old man

Harsh treatment for an Unbrako M16 12,9 bolt

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

A new backplate has been made for 3 and 4 chuck and big cast iron faceplate.

It meant to use the ER 40 thread (M50 1,5mm collett closing thread).

I dare not and will make a new spindle.

The three M6 screw finxing shown will be safer,just a little slower and saves lengths space.

 

 

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 31/07/2019 19:27:37

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

With your wonderful enhancements to the lathe, Neils … that headstock casting is starting to look under-nourished !

MichaelG.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

My son has fallen in love with the 180 lathe and I am preparing to send it out in the world.

It has got a 15mm steelplate between stone and headstock as support.I have also ordered a box with ER40 collets 3-26mm.

That means I will not be able by daily use to decide wich of the spindle variants

That is the one I have made

or the proposed is best.

I have  unscrewed 3jaw with backplate from present spindle and screwed the 4jaw plus backplate on and that is around 2 minutes.

I then put only backplate on again to simulate the new and maybe better spindle.

It takes a little more than three minutes to take the three long M6 bolts out ,place three-jaw in drawer

put four jaw on and secure with four long M6 screws.

The new configuration saves ca 20mm length for chucks but makes ER collets less accurate.

Can I have some advice before I write a letter to the Chineese embassy?

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 17/08/2019 20:56:20

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 17/08/2019 21:04:09

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

You will only know if a collet is good if you repeat the fitting with the collet at random positions and then take an average runout.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

I have received a X-mas gift on my dorstep from Amazon four days after ordering.And paying 122 Euro

My 24mm testbar gives total run-out within one division (0.01mm) close to collet and plus minus 0.025(total 0.05) at cantilevered end 200mm away when put in 24 to 23 collet .In the 25-24 it hardly moves near collet and is plus minus 0.015 at free end.

Not bad

I have some spoiled carbide milling cutters and can test these close to collet.

The 12mm cutter in 13-12 collet is plus minus 0.03 but 13 is not a lucky number and in the proper 12-11 collet it is plus minus 0.01.

16mm cutter and10mm cutter run within one division in proper and proper plus one collets.

Very ,very satisfactory.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/08/2019 13:57:40

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