Lathe help information

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

Greetings just joined and wondering if anyone could assist. Been given a lathe. Now I know nothing about lathes never owned one so haven’t a clue what’s what but never to old to learn. I can tell you it’s a Carson from Halifax Canada circa 1920’s I think. No idea how it goes together so if anyone has ever come across any booklets diagrams related to this model I would love to hear from you. I’ve started the clean up process which is going well but had surgery so one hand is defunct for a few weeks .

 

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

This is the offending item

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

The http://www.lathes.co.uk site shows some details about Carson lathes then mentions a Hardinge Cataract lathe that is similar. It would make a good starting point to find out what you have in the way of parts and how they go together.

https://www.lathes.co.uk/carson/

Martin C

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Woe, woe, and thrice woe!  lathes.co.uk in normally excellent, but macchect’s lathe isn’t there.   Tony shows a plain lathe, and macchect has a lead-screw and change-gears (good news).

First problem is it’s in bits!  Don’t panic, the layout is typical of many other lathes, so their photos will give a good idea of what goes where.  This is the Myford ML1 (photo from lathes.co.uk):

 

 

Begin, I suggest, by re-assembling the parts as arranged on the Myford, without worrying about the gears.  Ask about them later!   You will need a flat belt and electric motor, usually driven by a counter-shaft arrangement (3 more pulleys on a hinged arrangement).   Modern motors and electronic speed controllers provide alternatives worth considering, but there’s much to be said for the traditional two belt approach.   It’s a discussion.

Once together look for problems!  Missing and badly worn parts etc.   One nasty on lathes of this era is a cracked  headstock due to overtightening in an attempt to correct bearing wear.   If anything like that is found ask again – may be the lathe is “BER”, beyond economic repair, or requires a well-equipped workshop to fix it…

Welcome to the forum.

Dave

 

 

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

Thanks guys plan is clean everything up first. Everything is actually free as in not seized. Came with a motor that actually runs all 1/4 HP of it from Canadian general electric company. In relation to the gears it has lots of cogs but for the life of me can’t see how the link from the spindle forgive me if I get terminology wrong I have 0 knowledge on lathes.

This is the motor

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

The missing bit is another 1″ wide leather belt. Car poly-vee belts can be used.

It doesn’t need more than a 1/4hp being very lightly built.

Looks like a slant bed, Wilson made much larger ones in Halifax.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

First things first….. let’s sort out the spread of bits in those photos.

 

Put to one side for their cleaning and lubricating in sets:

Chucks and faceplates – these are the work-holders that screw onto spindle, the hollow (presumably) shaft right through the headstock. There are two chucks there, at front right, plus what seem three faceplates; the discs in the middle with various holes and slots (for clamping work-pieces not readily gripped in the chuck.)

The gears. Those with keyways and stamped or embossed numbers (their tooth-counts) will be the “change-wheels” for screw-cutting and fine longitudinal feeds. They are used by setting appropriate combinations of them on the spindle and leadscrew (the one right along the lathe’s length), so somewhere among all the bits should be an intermediate plate with a long slot in it, called the “banjo” from the usual shape of them. I can’t see it on the bench so it might be in its place on the lathe, below the outer end of the headstock.

There may be four gears that seem not to match the general pattern of the change-wheels. See if they form two pinion/gear combinations with the same total number of teeth on both, say (40 + 65), (30+75) for sake of example. They might be for a “back-gear” giving a two-stage extra low spindle speed – I use that on my lathe when screw-cutting, and machining irregular objects. I cannot determine if your lathe has this, but if it does they form an arrangement with two on the spindle and two on a parallel shaft behind the headstock, with locking / engaging means. A clue may be the presence of machined seatings and tapped screw-holes on the back of the headstock.

Having cleared the decks for action a bit…

The big arrangement to the right is the saddle / cross-slide / top-slide assembly. It has some way to allow linking it to the lead-screw, involving that block already on the screw. The block has dropped round so facing the wrong way. The general shapes and the sizes and alignments of screw holes should show where things meet; but I cannot say if there is something else betwixt block and saddle. Usually there is a hefty casting there, called the “apron”.

The lever is for engaging and disengaging the half-nut(s) by which the saddle is driven along the bed by the screw, from the spindle via the change-wheels.

Dave’s photo of a Myford lathe shows the usual pattern, but if this is a slant-bed lathe as Dave H suggests, that block om the leadscrew may bolt straight to somewhere on the saddle.

.

That’s the primary parts but there is an intriguing collection of components left…..

The object immediately in front of the lathe, to right of the half-nut block, seems to be a milling-spindle, a  useful accessory (it needs its own drive via that pulley on its end) but not part of the machine itself.

The four small blocks with hefty screws and hook-like protrusions, by the faceplates, may be “faceplate dogs” – for clamping work to the faceplate via the slots. Also there are what appear the chuck-keys: square ends and Tee-handles.

Below the name-plate: the small item is possibly a stub-axle for holding an intermediate gear in the change-wheel train? The shaft, apparently, with a nut on the end, might be part of the back gear IF fitted?

I can’t identify the:

– Elegant trilobe thingummy.

–  Three rod-based components in the middle,

– The casting between the tailstock and the large faceplate. It might be an accessory not part of the machine; perhaps related to the putative milling-spindle.

.

Finally, as this was made in Canada, will the various screw-threads be of BSW or BSF, or American (UNC / UNF) form? Replacements for both may be obtainable though not necessarily to the right length. The UN ones would be easier to find; and the hexagons are to the (a/b)” A/F nomenclature.

.

Hope this helps!

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Is the trilobe for to hold tumble reverse gears (the two smallest ones)

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

Firstly thank you all for your comments I’ve clearly come to the right place. Now I am a child when talking lathe speak so you need to educate me on the terminology feel free to use idiot terms I won’t be offended🫡

Now it’s quiz time. I’ve laid the parts out in rows top row is 1-5 etc. Starter for 10 can you name the part and say where it goes and what it does. The winner gets a suitable 😁

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

re: the missing belt, you’ll need a joinable one to fit around headstock and layshaft without dismantling. This would typically have used an alligator fastener – https://www.lathes.co.uk/beltjoiners/

Flat leather belts are good for starters as they will slip if you have a jam when setting up and practicing and avoid breaking anything else…have a hunt through your wardrobe or a s/hand shop for one of correct width.

Later you can get proper belting, e.g. Balata if the leather one doesn’t suffice.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi maccecht, below is a scan of a typical screw cutting lathe, with the names of most of the key parts.

The piece at the top right in the third photo down, should fit into the gap of the lathe bed, at the headstock end.

Regards Nick.

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Doesn’t look to me as if all parts are from the same lathe.

for starters, the base of headstock casting does not appear to match the bed.

If that is the case, difficult to justify the time and effort to resurrect (unless you particularly enjoy ‘rabbit holes’).

Somebody once gave me a BSA Gold Star as a box of bits. After a great deal of faffing about, it turned out to be about 60% BSA the rest brand X. Reverted to a box of bits to be passed on to someone else! These days the good bits could have been flogged on line but in the 80’s nobody warned us the internet was coming!

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The item suggested as a milling spindle may be a form of slow feed by engaging with a changewheel, possibly at the tailstock end, and driven by a belt off another pulley on the spindle.

bear in mind that some parts will be nothing to do with the lathe but just useful items collected along the way.

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

This bit called headstock? had shims under it assuming non standard to bypass the casting issue not sure how that affect alignment. Thanks again all for your input. @Nick usefull picture thank you. You guys clearly know your stuff so more questions to follow</p>

[Martin of WickParticipant @martinofwick]

Yes and clearly from a prism bed lathe, not a flat bed.

I’m sure someone will pipe up and find that ‘Bodger, Junk and Carp’ made a lathe in 1941 with an intermediate plate for mounting the headstock but I don’t know of such a case.

Headstocks bases are usually accurately ground t precisely match the bed for which they are designed for.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi maccecht, looking again at the third photo down above, that large looking cog, with the scribed lines between every third tooth, may have been used as an indexing plate, and may have been fixed to that unit diagonally above it with what looks like a short worm-wheel, which would mesh with a change gear on the headstock spindle, in a similar way to the one in the photo below, but you would probably have to remove that small grooved pulley first, and then have a method of engaging a pin of some kind, to keep it in the right place.

However, there doesn’t seem to be anyway of fitting change wheels to your spindle, unless that shaft with the two change wheels on, fits into the bore somehow.

The disc to the right of that big cog, looks like a backplate for a chuck, or even a faceplate.

The three spoked wheel probably fits onto the right hand end of the leadscrew, for hand turning the feed of the saddle, although it doesn’t look like the correct handle is fitted in it, although it might have had a wooden handle  secured to that pin.

Regards Nick.

[maccechtParticipant @maccecht]

Nick

Brownie points. Wheel fits on the end takes a cotter pin that’s gone walkabout but that’s a minor issue. The worm screw that’s confusing as it is just a threaded rod under the pulley maybe 12 mm diameter. I did note that a set of cogs has a flat shaft that fits onto the slotted bar below the headstock obviously the cogs on it are interchangeable.

The face plates screw onto the headstock nicely as do the two chucks. As suggested by one of our learned colleagues the horseshoe bit slots into the bed.

I think there are a few bits missing and as suggested this may well be a bitsa and parts will be made of unobtainium. Not an issue it was just for fun. If anyone wants it they can have it for free just need to collect it from Rochester Kent. Just had surgery on my hand so can’t do much with it anyway hate to skip it.

 

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

…Finally, as this was made in Canada, will the various screw-threads be of BSW or BSF, or American (UNC / UNF) form? …

Good question, well asked!

If made for the Canadian and British market at a time when most of the world was either in or affiliated to the British Empire, then BSW, BSF, and BA are likely.  Unless it’s Whitworth.

Except Canada has always done well selling to the US, who dislike British fasteners.  In which case, given the date of the lathe, it might be threaded NC, NF or possibly Sellars rather than British.  Too early to be Unified, though they should fit.

That it’s turned up in the UK improves the chance it was for the British market and has British fasteners, except all bets were off during WW2.  Massive numbers of machine tools were imported to support the war effort, during which it was painfully found that almost identical US and British fasteners were incompatible, so it was decided to Unify.   Canada had a major role in that effort, I guess because they knew about both British and US standards.   Unified threads didn’t take off in the UK as expected, because, export or die after 1945, customers abroad wanted metric…

As metrication in the Anglo-Saxon world started long after after this lathe was made I’d bet money that it’s not metric, and even then it’s not impossible.  Might have been for Japan…

I think if maccecht persists, he should buy some thread gauges and measure a few.

Dave

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