lathe cutting fluid.

[Gareth JohnstonParticipant @garethjohnston62587]

lathe coolant.

[Gareth JohnstonParticipant @garethjohnston62587]

Hello everyone , I hope I am posting this in the correct place , recently took delivery of my Denford Viceroy 280 vs lathe and got it in and sorted , but I am looking to change the cutting fluid , currently it uses a soluble mix , I was thinking of changing to oil to prevent rust as it won't get every day use . Whats everyone's recommendations? . Many thanks Gareth.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Gareth,

If you replace the soluble oil with pure oil – something like hydraulic oil – you will not get the same amount of cooling. I rarely use any cutting fluid and the few times I do I use a thin hydraulic oil applied with a small brush.

This has been discussed here before, here are a couple of links if you haven't already visited them:

***Link***

***Link***

Thor

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

I have found this stuff from Tool Station excellent. And cheap.

**LINK**

Mick

[Capstan SpeakingParticipant @capstanspeaking95294]

For occasional use you are better off running it empty and using a squirty bottle.

If it's not used much then even neat cutting oil will not protect it enough. You would need to grease the exposed areas between uses.

However if you do want to fill the tank with oil then it needs to be proper neat cutting oil.

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

tI would not advise cutting oil,I run my adcock and shipley 2e mill with cutting oil,its been there for about five years,I tried out the cutting oil as I was having trouble with bacteria in the soluble oil, The mill does not get a lot of use,and the oil remains in good condition,but and its a big but,it makes an awful mess and takes about a week to fully drain back into the sump,the swarf takes the same time to drain 90% of the oil from it,remove the swarf from the machine too quick and a lot of oil is lost still stuck to the swarf,plus if you put swarf in bin liners oil will leak out and more mess.Any workpiece will be covered in oil and require degreasing,plus parallels angle plates and vices will be soaking in oil. Only advantage as I see it ,finish on all steels is improved and I dont have to continually replace soluble oil. on my other machines I use soluble oil,three with pumped systems and the myford it is still the traditional half pint china mug and a cheap paint brush.I first encounteredhe bacteria soluble oil problem 30 years ago on cnc machines,and we put it down to the fact the soluble used was a special high performance soluble oil,At the time I was using soluble oil in small quantities in my home workshop brush or squirt bottle,my oil supply being a gallon of sol oil that I had aquired in the early 1970s, I then bought a large turret mill with coolant pump and I purchase a new supply of sol oil which started to go off if not frequently used, changed oil supplier Castrol ,got same problem the oil being eaten by bacteria,and leaving an acidic watery mess. Castrol suggested running the machines every other day if not in use to aerate the solubleoil, It did not really work. And looking back at the cnc machines where I first saw bacteria the machines ran 24/7 and topped up daily with 5 gallons of soluble.So the fluid in them was aerated. I reckon the problem is that as usual with health and safety the anti bacteria agents have been removed,tried adding jeyes fluid ,did not improve anything. Over the many years that I visited many engineering subcontractors it was rare to see neat cutting oil used,its use seemed to be in larger manufacturing set ups,ie auto lathe shops ,and continous operation cutting where there were facilities for handling the swarf,recovering the oil and containing the mess. I would stay with soluble oil,wipe the machine down after use,and then lubricate the bare metal with some cheap lubricating oil.Also if you get neat cutting oil on the workshop floor it will not evaporate,it will get waiked indoors.If a small pumped system is used then make sure it can be easily accessible for thorough cleaning.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I've a mate who got sick of soluable oil going rancid on his lathe and milling machine. So he converted to using a 50/50 mix of car engine oil and kerosene. I would have been worried about the kero catching light from sparks coming off toolbits etc but he has been using it for several years now with no spontaneous combustions. An added bonus is the mix lubricates the slides etc beautifully.

Personally, I just dab a bit of cutting oil on with a brush when needed.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Wouldn't advise going neat not only will it cost a fortune to get up and running about £100+ Check capacity of the tank think its of the order 20ltrs plus same as older Harrisons. It will have no benefit either that a soluable will do, its oil based and lubricates the slides. Would also point out as Nigel stated, neat is wasteful not only swarf but parts dripping with neat coming off and a lot of waste. Certain tasks are ok using neat such as reaming and tapping but that's about it.

Reminds me must get some more soluable synthetic or semi synthetic, its a disposable item like any other tool. Used daily I get through 9ltrs per year. Benefit of soluable is its cooling and lubricating powers, many tools need it or wont work.

Can make your own soluable just use engine oil and add soap but that works out as dear as the real thing.

Think bottom line is if a diyer use a spray or drip bottle, anything more use the inbuilt coolant for convenience and a better job.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Hopper on 17/05/2015 10:32:35:

I've a mate who got sick of soluable oil going rancid on his lathe and milling machine. So he converted to using a 50/50 mix of car engine oil and kerosene. I would have been worried about the kero catching light from sparks coming off toolbits etc but he has been using it for several years now with no spontaneous combustions. An added bonus is the mix lubricates the slides etc beautifully.

Personally, I just dab a bit of cutting oil on with a brush when needed.

Personally I couldn't think of a worse cutting mixture than 50/50 engine oil & kerosene, but hey if he is happy. I think that must be one that the multi billion pound cutting fluid industry may have passed on.

Tony

[Gareth JohnstonParticipant @garethjohnston62587]

Thanks for the replies everyone , ill possibly just keep on using a soluble mix and keep the lathe well oiled to prevent

Any rust . Cheers Gareth

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

Most soluble cutting oils have a biocide in them to keep the bugs at bay and they also have rust inhibitors.

I tend to use what I think is appropriate for each job, like making some 5BA studs, that just need a drop of oil on it to lubricate the die. I do not use a pot and brush as I find it is wasteful so now have some little plastic pots which I keep the cutting fluid in as it is far easier to apply small amounts.

Bob

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I use Neatcut 110 from Hallet Oils in my Chipmaster. This is a straight neat cutting oil (as the name suggests). Five litres was enough to get me going. While it does smoke a bit if you push the depth of cut, I get great surface finish. Like the OP the main reason for using a neat oil vs soluble was long term stability, without having to worry about bacterial contamination or corrosion. While I am certain the cooling efficiency is not as good as soluble, it works for me.

Stuart

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

Just a thought ; anyone tried windscreen wash? Colin

[Anonymous]

Water based soluble oil coolants are much better for cooling, as water has a high specific heat capacity.

For some years I used Hallett Oils Biokool14, but as this has become more difficult to get I have changed to Castrol Hysol XF. This is sold as a good general purpose soluble oil coolant for turning, milling and grinding, and is suitable for hard water areas, ie, Cambridge. I have never had coolant go rancid, despite it sitting unused for months at a time in some machines. Neither have I had any rust problems, except when I have let the coolant get too weak. If coolant if left it is the water that evaporates, so the mixture tends to get more concentrated with time. Every now and again it is simple enough to check the mixture with a refractometer and add water/oil as required.

I tend to run carbide tooling dry to save a mess, but use coolant with HSS tools. The exception is the CNC mill where coolant is always used (except on cast iron and brass) primarily to wash the swarf away.

Andrew

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

The soluble oil in my mill gets very little use and after 3 years it's still fine, I think it's a synthetic.

Steve

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Also to add to the alternative products I use castor racing oil on the lathe, very good on steel etc, I use a hand cream pump bottle but would be better in a oil can with a bendy spout.

Steve

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Anyone got experience of spray mist cooling? I can't use flood cooling on the milling machine. Any info on home made systems welcomed.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

> Anyone got experience of spray mist cooling?

There was a thread on his recently:

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=104164

[Gareth JohnstonParticipant @garethjohnston62587]

Posted by Bob Brown 1 on 17/05/2015 15:13:15:

Most soluble cutting oils have a biocide in them to keep the bugs at bay and they also have rust inhibitors.

I tend to use what I think is appropriate for each job, like making some 5BA studs, that just need a drop of oil on it to lubricate the die. I do not use a pot and brush as I find it is wasteful so now have some little plastic pots which I keep the cutting fluid in as it is far easier to apply small amounts.

Bob

Cheers bob that sounds like a good job. Gareth

[Paul NarramoreParticipant @paulnarramore61033]

That's what I shall do. Little bottles. What is a puzzle is that I I have been listening to advice both here and in my Amateur Lathe book about using cutting oils/fluids and yet some of the excellent YouTube videos show examples of turning without either, and taking great cuts as well. I contacted one chap and asked why this was so and why he thought oils/fluids no necessary, and got a two word answer back "Not needed" which was hardly helpful. If it means a smoother finish and protecting the lathe tools, it must make more sense.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Paul Narramore on 21/10/2015 10:22:22:

That's what I shall do. Little bottles. What is a puzzle is that I I have been listening to advice both here and in my Amateur Lathe book about using cutting oils/fluids and yet some of the excellent YouTube videos show examples of turning without either, and taking great cuts as well. I contacted one chap and asked why this was so and why he thought oils/fluids no necessary, and got a two word answer back "Not needed" which was hardly helpful. If it means a smoother finish and protecting the lathe tools, it must make more sense.

I'm guessing the videos are using Tungsten carbide tools which can take a lot of heat without breaking down, HSS are not so forgiving.

For decent work I always rough with one tool & finish with another, coolant or oil is preferable to cutting dry in my experience [brass & cast iron excepted] you will get longer tool life & better finish.

Tony

[Russell Taylor 2Participant @russelltaylor2]

Hello everyone

I have been reading all the replies as to long term life of water based coolant and the growth of bacteria. Having worked in the automotive and aerospace industry all my working life, this is not a new problem even with up to date coolants. As was mentioned in an earlier thread the use of neat cutting oil is probably the best solution. If anyone is interested as to the health problems caused by soluble cutting fluids and airborne solubles,go onto the internet and search for Rover Power Train coolant health problems. This became quiet serious and actually helped change the law regarding the use of these coolants. There is a paper written by a leading professor of Birmingham University Hospital who set up a working medical ward at Power Train to monitor and assess the long term effects of the airborne particulates and bacteria present in the cutting fluids.

I was actually one of the people affected by the coolant mist and was subjected to tests, luckily i was passed ok, some less fortunate souls ended up with long term industrial asthma and alveolitis.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

During my apprenticeship I ran a "Keller" copy milling machine, the cutting oil was made up of Lard Oil and parrafin.

No rust issues but very unsociable smell.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I know it is not the same, but I spent a lot of my career threading electrical conduit for installations. We used all sorts of cutting aids. Tallow from the butcher. Plain oil. Trefolex cutting paste. & a few other means. Just to say when we used oil it was hard going with the dies. As if the oil was not melting into the work like the proper cutting mediums. Would this transpose over to cutting tools on a lathe.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

A couple of years ago on this excellent site, someone recomended Castrol Hysol Excel and I tried it because there was a supplier who would supply 1 litre.

It is recomended at 4-6% for machining and 8-10% for tapping. I use it at 20% with deionised water just to be sure and have had no problems.

Brian

[Author]

Posts