Lathe and mill or combination

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

I got a Chester Conquest mini lathe a few weeks ago and while I’ve only been playing with it (mostly making pens for Christmas presents), I’m (as I believe is common) am already feeling I want to do more!

 

The next step is that I would like is to get a milling machine and I have something like the Chester Century mill in mind. I’m looking at that or similar as it’s the biggest (provided I can hire some muscle power) that I can get in the shed and I feel I made a mistake in getting the mini lathe and that I already would like a bigger lathe, so with my next purchase, I’d rather aim “big”.

 

If I was to go for separate machines, I think my ultimate aim would be to have the Century mill and a DB10/11V (or similar) lathe but I am wondering about space.

 

I can fit both of these in but that leaves me with absolutely no room for any “future expansion”. With this in mind, I am considering a combination machine, eg. DB10/11V with mill head.

 

I have read that combination units are not as good as the separate machines but I’ve also read they still can be quite reasonable and are worth considering where space is tight.

 

I suppose my question (which I guess may need a bit of clairvoyance, although I guess others here may have been there..) is:

 

In the long run, am I more likely to be frustrated by any limitations of a combination machine or am I more likely at some point to be frustrated because I can not house a “something else” machine?

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Go with separate machines if you can, it is so much more flexible and each machine is designed for its job and not a compromise. You won’t regret it.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Jon,

I would second Douglas Johnston’s comments.

Les.

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

Again .. go with seperate machines, it will be a lot easier to upgrade one of them if you need to in the future.

 

Dave

 

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

Thanks all. I’m getting the feeling that the advice to go separate will be pretty unanimous and I think I can already make my decision to go that way.

 

—

(Re future upgrades from there. Not that I really know anything, I think those Wabeco lathes look nice. Out of my price range though…)

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

A nasty gotcha concerning sizes when looking at lathes and mills is that a mill needs to be relatively larger than a lathe to handle same size work. Most especially so in smaller sizes. Mainly its because a mill has to accommodate work holding (eg vice, clamps), tooling and tool changing space within its work envelope whilst, except for drilling and the relatively small space occupied by chucks, pretty much all the space you see on a lathe is available for the work piece. Also, on any specific job, parts needing to be milled are often physically larger than those being tuned so need more machine space to fit. To make matters worse mills sprawl all over the place and are total space hogs compared to lathes.

 

When looking at mills its easy to over look the considerable difference between table size which determines how big a part can be strapped down the table travel which actually defines how large apart can be machined without resorting to repositioning. Once again the smaller the machine the worse the problem. Unless your 3D visualisation is far better than mine a bit of cardboard engineering to make a box to physically illustrate the work envelope could save disappointment. Took me 3 goes before I got the relative sizes sorted good enough.

 

Clive

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

A friend has a combined machine, it seems to be specially designed to be fairly usless as a lathe, and a mill, he puts up with it because of the low price he payed for it, about $NZ100. Go for individual machines, it will save a lot of frustration. The only major problem I,v had with my Rexon Mill is lack of room under the chuck/ cutter, especially when I,v got the 8″ chuck from the lathe mounted on the rotary table, things can get a bit tight. It’s supprsing what you can make do with, my other lathe is a Super Adept, now that is a bit small for most work!!! Ian S C

[John Wood1Participant @johnwood1]

I bought a Warco 300 combination lathe but soon discovered that decent milling was hard to achieve and it was a right pain changing between lathe and milling work. I now have a separate miller and have in fact removed the milling head from the lathe as it gets in the way.

 

John

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

NOOOOO. Stay away from combination manchines. I had a Chest Comet lathe with a mini mill mounted on the back. I soon bought a seperate base for the mill. The mini mill (X2) is ok only for light milling on small pieces. My had about 90 mm cross travel far to little. You need mass in a mill even more than you need it in a lathe.

 

Mike

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

Also, if something gets b*********d then you’ve lost both machines, whereas with separate machines at least you can use the other one. I bought the milling attachment for my Cowells lathe, but I then bought their separate milling machine, which I’m very pleased with. I would think that you’ll also waste more time demounting the milling attachment than you would setting up a separate mill.

 

Dennis

[Barry QParticipant @barryq]

Jon,

 

I think the answer from the other posts is not to do it. I bought a couple of years ago a 2nd hand 5″ Boxford (I think the make is immaterial) and soon fitted it with a vertical attachment to do the milling.

The combination machines that you have been looking at are (I expect) better than my set up but guess what? So far I’ve done mostly milling on a machine that is very limited and I’m now seriously looking out for a suitable milling machine.

I suspect you will find the same problem as described by the other contributors above. If you are serious about this hobby and wish to carry on for some considerable time I think biting the bullet financially is the cheapest in the long term.

 

Barry

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

Thanks again, all I am convinced as to which way to go (ie. separate).

 

I think I am serious about the hobby. At the moment I’m only really playing and think I will leave any serious project until I can get the new kit which (lathe and mill) should be early next year.

 

While in a past existence, I was a trainee setter operator, setting profile copy lathes, turret lathes (ancient Herbert Auto juniors) and spindles in a place that made track rod ends, I’d not used a centre lathe or done anything I might call metalwork. So a lot is very new and For now, rightly or wrongly I’m contended getting the feel of the lathe I have now.

I think the first model I would like to make is a Sterling engine.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Good choice for first model (you may get hooked on the things, I have). Whether or not you’v used a center lathe, you have expiriance with machines so you’ll pick up the opperation of the lathe quickly, if you don’t, just ask here. Ian S C

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Jon,

 

It depends on exactly what you mean to make. If you are just going to make small (ish) engines such as Stuart Turner type steam engines or aero engines such as Ramon is serialising in the latest ME you could get away with a good lathe and a good, solid vertical slide attachment. The vertical slide can be bolted to the cross slide of the lathe and it can then be used as a small milling machine with the tools held in collets in the headstock spindle.

 

This is not the same as a lathe mill combination, it is a bit more solid. Before you discard the idea remember that many well known, even famous, model engineers made wonderful models using such a set up. For example, Eric Whittle built his famous 2.5cc V8 aero engine with Myford and vertical slide.

 

That would mean more finance for a better lathe and give you a chance to practice milling. If you find that you need a larger machine you could sell the vertical slide and invest in a milling machine at a later date when you have more experience. The modellers I referred to above made superb models without all of the ‘bells and whistles’ you may be persuaded you need. I know it’s hard to resist all the shiny stuff, but I would advise you to consider at length exactly what you are intending to build.

 

Of course if you intend to build a 3″ or 4″ Burrell traction engine then it could conceivably be cheaper to buy a ready made engine than all of the equipment and materials needed .

 

Best of luck,

 

Regards

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 02/10/2011 16:28:04

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

Thanks again.

 

Terry, I’m afraid my plans are not that clear.

 

I suspect my main interest will turn out to be in steam engines – probably stationary ones – but I would like to try a couple of Stirling engines first. I would like to make an internal combustion engine at some point but at the moment, I see that more as (sort of) being able to say I’ve made rather than being a long term interest but I suspect much could change as I go along.

 

I’m afraid in terms of scale, at the moment, I’m just a vague sort of “up to whatever the set up I can afford can do” (and no, while I think it must be lovely to have such an engine, I’m not going to be disappointed that a 3″ or 4″ Burrell is out of the question).

[alan frostParticipant @alanfrost17805]

For what its worth an Emco V10 (even better a V10P ) is a reasonable quality lathe and usually comes with a useful milling head. I have a couple of high quality mills (a Fritz Werner and a Hardinge copy (Haighton ) ) but often use the Emco mill as it has a lot of daylight under the quill and for the trouble of making a subtable to supplement the provided table can mill items up to 20 inches long (i.e. an X travel of 20 inches.)

Mind – no huge cuts , the mill is not an Adcock and Shipley but its certainly a step up from vertical slides as far as convenience is concerned..

I belong to the Emco Yahoo group which has a lot of experienced machinists , who generally rate the quality of the V10 and its smaller versions. I certainly rate it as a very well made and versatile lathe , and it is generally accepted as one of , if not the best of, the lathe mill combination machines. As a lathe it will do much bigger work than say, a Myford and I suspect , just as accurately and more conveniently.

Having said that I would still recommend separate machines , but if you have space or budget constraints, a V10P or one of its smaller siblings ,would do all that you wish and do it well.

 

Having said that one guy bought a V10P with every problem under the sun and I and most of the group are absolutely mystified , as I think is he , on how such a machine came into existence. The consensus is that some previous owner misused badly ,and then bodged the machine.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi

I made the major mistake of buying a combi and quickly realised it was not up to the job so got a Chester 626 mill, I will dig out the title of a great stirling engine book my grandson has been useing in the workshop will send you details tomorrow.

 

good luck and pleasant days in the workshop

 

Bob

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Jon Freeman on 04/10/2011 21:31:14:

Thanks again.

 

Terry, I’m afraid my plans are not that clear.

 

I suspect my main interest will turn out to be in steam engines – probably stationary ones – but I would like to try a couple of Stirling engines first. I would like to make an internal combustion engine at some point but at the moment, I see that more as (sort of) being able to say I’ve made rather than being a long term interest but I suspect much could change as I go along.

 

I’m afraid in terms of scale, at the moment, I’m just a vague sort of “up to whatever the set up I can afford can do” (and no, while I think it must be lovely to have such an engine, I’m not going to be disappointed that a 3″ or 4″ Burrell is out of the question).

 

 

Hi John,

 

That’s just the scenario I was trying to describe .

 

Regards

 

Terry

[jonbanjoParticipant @jonbanjo]

And I think it’s looking like the best plan for me, Terry. I think I will go with the lathe and vertical slide and see how I go from there.

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