Large vertical engine – help with I/D or origin please

[Loose nutParticipant @loosenut]

. I acquired this rather large and heavy engine at the weekend and paid £100 for it.

Its very heavy (10kg) stands almost 10" tall (excluding wooden base)

Looks like a 1" bore with 1" stroke and the flywheel is 6" diameter and 3/4" wide.

The base casting is huge and looks industrial although no visible markings or plate.

Its been suggested that its a Victorian workshop engine used to power small bench tools.

Another thought that its an apprentice piece or an exhibition model made by a full size engine manufacturer.

Any help guidance and opinions would be appreciated.

 

Edited By Loose nut on 16/03/2015 14:54:32

[Loose nutParticipant @loosenut]

Large vertical engine – possibly victorian workshop engine

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Just my unqualified opinion But bolts holding the column to the base instead of studs too few ( in my opinion ) studs holding the cylinder cover and the valve chest There appear to be bolts again holding the bearing caps so I would suggest not an apprentice or an exhibition model from a manufacturer I am open to be shot down

Roy

[Bill StarlingParticipant @billstarling10428]

When there is doubt as to whether an engine is a large model or a small working engine I always look at the big end. If it's meant for continuous running I'd expect to seem some means of lubricating the bearing, other than merely an oil hole. I'd be very pleased to hear other opinions as I do have just such an engine.

Bill.

[Loose nutParticipant @loosenut]

Posted by roy entwistle on 16/03/2015 16:14:22:

Just my unqualified opinion But bolts holding the column to the base instead of studs too few ( in my opinion ) studs holding the cylinder cover and the valve chest There appear to be bolts again holding the bearing caps so I would suggest not an apprentice or an exhibition model from a manufacturer I am open to be shot down

Roy

The bolts holding the column to the base are not original in my opinion as the don't match either the studs or bolts elsewhere . The engine may have had some restoration work done in the past…

Do you agree it may have been an actual working engine ?

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I think this is a one-off scratch built model and the builder has shown quite a lot of ingenuity in its construction probably using/adapting what was to hand. I certainly do not think it is an exhibition model as without being rude it appears a bit crude.

It has some interesting features however. It is single acting with a truck piston and no crosshead. Is the large brass cylinder on top of the valve chest a lubricator of some sort ?.

I agree with Bill the big end arrangement looks rather too weak for an engine designed to drive anything. Also an engine of 1" bore x 1" stroke will not produce much power even at 6 bar or so.

Nevertheless it is a very nice and interesting engine to own and a bargain at the price paid.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Looks like lubricators are missing from the main bearings, but a decent lubricator on the valve chest and a drain cock. Would have expected some sort of lubrication for the big end.

Those bolts for the standard don't look original…

Six studs (screws?) is plenty for the cylinder head IMHO.

I suspect taken apart and put together again in non-original condition.

The steam pipe connection looks a bit fussy for a mass produced engine to me, but quite possibly made to earn its living. The disc flywheel suggest function rather than decoration as well.

Neil

[thomas oliver 2Participant @thomasoliver2]

I note that the feet of the standard are tapered and the legs wide spread. It appears that the standard may have been adapted from say a Stuart 7A and split and splayed out to fit a diiferent base. It looks like a Bitza.

[Loose nutParticipant @loosenut]

See attached link relating to working small engines and some quotes…

**LINK**

"small "workshop" steam engine built to run small power users back in the day.It is a little larger than one inch bore and built very well.I believe it has a specific function based on the design of the cast bed.It stands ten inches tall with a 4.500 diameter flywheel"

For very small power users..sewing machines,jewelers lathes and buffing arbors small engines like this were common.They were the smallest size on the far end of the power spectrum.Sipp was a well known manufacturer who made steam engines for commercial power.Even Stuart made engines in the early days that drove commercial generators and centrifugal pumps.

[Loose nutParticipant @loosenut]

Posted by thomas oliver 2 on 16/03/2015 18:53:11:

I note that the feet of the standard are tapered and the legs wide spread. It appears that the standard may have been adapted from say a Stuart 7A and split and splayed out to fit a diiferent base. It looks like a Bitza.

I am inclined to disagree on the Stuart standard thoery

heres a Stuart number 7A standard……..

And here's the one from my engine……..

As you can see although they are mildly similar they are not the same when you look up close in many ways.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

OT(a bit) Running a ST 9 on air at 60+ psi I was able to run a small alternator to light a 40 W, 230 V light bulb. That gives some indication of the power available. I don't know the efficiency of the alternator, and the voltage dropped below 230 V, but still quite impressive.

Ian S C

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Would be interesting to know the wattage of the compressor to compare what goes in with what comes out.

J

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

My little compressor was not keeping up, and after a few minutes had dropped to 40psi, and a bit under 100 volts. compressor powered by a 1/2 hp 1450 rpm motor, pretty inefficient, still 5% would be fairly good on steam. 15 w would be a good continuous output.

Ian S C

[thomas oliver 2Participant @thomasoliver2]

Loosenut, if you observe the 3rd shot from the bottom you will note that the top of the legs looks as iff the trunk guide has been cut away.. The tops of the legs look peculiarly thin.. On closer observation, I note that in fact the feet of the original casting have tapered packing fitted to achieve the correct splayed angle.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The other sign that they are chopped about legs is in the view showing the underside of the cylinder. What was once a cast ring at teh top of the legs of smaller dia that the cylinder has been cut in half and moved outwards that is why the dia at the top of the legs is smaller than the OD of the cylinder flange.

Probably not from a 7A but could have been home recasts from any one of several vertical engines

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 23/03/2015 18:28:37

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