Knurling tool

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Being really cheeky here. I know it has been done to death, but the knurling tool i bought from a sponsor on here is . Well lets say a bit to be desired. So i looked at the scissor type knurling tool & that is what i would like.

The only ones i can find are from India, yes they are catching up. Unfortunately they do not look very good quality. So with that i would like to buy some stock & make one as a project. The cheeky part is does anyone have a cad drawing or even a pdf of one that i could cadge from.

Steve.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Scissor knurling type tool

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

**LINK**

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 04/08/2021 05:30:06

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Have a look at Hemmingway's offering here

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

This is my version.

It will open up to about 2 inch and down to very small. I have drawn it up if you want a copy I can email it to you. I used a set of wheels from a push type tool and they are easily changed for all three types.

David

[Craig BrownParticipant @craigbrown60096]

I made the basic one from Hemingway and find it very good, was also an enjoyable build. I modified the size of the arms and pins to accommodate the more commonly available 3/8" wide wheels. I have used the tool on both a Boxford and a large Colchester at work with great success on both

[Martin King 2Participant @martinking2]

You may want to check out Toms Techniques on YouTube, he does a complete build series for a knurling tool:

Cheers, Martin

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

The Hemingway kit is based on the Marlco knurler which is the best of the lot imo. They aren't cheap but worth looking at.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Have a look at Knurl milling. Seems to put the least strain on the spindle.

Regards Ian.

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

NDIY how do we know Steve bought the Knurling tool from RDG? I can see three sponsors who sell Knurling tools, Arc, Warco and Chester.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Also no mention that the tool is at fault, the type that just push against the work generally leave a bit to be desired which is what Stevie's problem may be rather than the tool's quality.

RDG are not even site sponsors

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I have a genuine Marlco and can confirm that its absolutely the bees dangly bits. Hefty old thing so lifting it onto the lathe gives you a nice work out. The Hemingway design is virtually a perfect, albeit scaled down, clone so I can't see any reason why it shouldn't be just as good if well made.

The usual shop made scissors style tool is much simpler and easier to build but lacks of the brute strength of the Marlco. Setting knurling depth and applying cut force for reliable clean knurls is easier on the Marlco too. Generally the common type is up for ordinary jobs but the relatively unsupported pivoting arms can mutually twist on larger and/or more difficult material. The bigger the capacity the more likely you are to hit trouble. Up to 2" or so, like Davids, you'd have to be unlucky with material choice. Beyond that a bit of extra care in material selection becomes needful.

As ever you gets what you pays for. Whether in money or build time.

Regular forumites will know that I recommend the hand squeezed 3 wheel "nutcracker" style for casual knurling as putting least strain on a smaller machine and fastest to do the job. I still use mine regulariy for quickies when I don't want to bother setting up the Marlco. Big disadvantage is that doing a bunch of knurls exactly the same is unlikely. Close yes. Exactly probably not. I find skimming the ends to put a shallow ring above and below the knurl works fine to "exactify" the appearance of knurled head screws and the like.

Decent quality knurls are essential. I've bought from Zoro and found their offerings good and not unreasonably expensive. Can find half price or less on E-Bay et al but … My Marlco came with what I can only imagine a cheapy set installed. Worked well enough until I showed it a bit of stainless which promptly wiped the teeth off one side of one knurl leaving it D shaped with a nice shiny flat! Forensic examination of the knurls revealed that quality was "less than good".

I suspect most of the disappointing, inexpensive, import knurlers would do much better if quality knurls were fitted and attention paid to pivots et al. All the three sizes on one swivelling head breed that I've seen could do with serious attention to the swivel which is invariably far too stiff. But when you get a complete tool for less than Zoro sells a pair of knurls for something has to give. I have an unusually configured Pratt & Whitney made knurler with a single pair of knurls in a swivelling head. The pivot is very free moving.

Clive

 

Edited By Clive Foster on 04/08/2021 09:28:52

[Gary WoodingParticipant @garywooding25363]

THIS is a link to a PDF of one I designed and made many years ago. I also designed and 3D printed a storage box for it and some additional knurls.

d/1HPVUl_xO_bRdRcHFAGKrxybH_YvmMAm3/view?usp=sharing >**LINK**

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

I've mentioned this before on the forum, in another thread, but I'll repeat it, anyway. I made a knurling tool to a Graham Meek design and it's very good indeed. That is to say the design is good, not necessarily my version. The design is detailed in Graham's book "Projects for your workshop, Vol.1"

It mounts directly in the QCTP and is easily adjustable from the front of the machine and can accommodate quite large diameters of material. I would second the advice to buy good quality knurls, too

As you can see, it works on the scissor principle, thus removing the thrust on the lathe bearings.

John

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

Steve – I made one in 2014 and posted details here:

**LINK**

Rik

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 04/08/2021 01:37:43:

Being really cheeky here. I know it has been done to death, but the knurling tool i bought from a sponsor on here is . Well lets say a bit to be desired. So i looked at the scissor type knurling tool & that is what i would like.

The only ones i can find are from India, yes they are catching up. Unfortunately they do not look very good quality….

Steve.

Joining the dots, I guess Steve refers to a bump-type knurler;

(Or the variant with two wheels.)

These are a poor choice for a small weedy lathe like a Myford, or a Chinese hobby machine of similar size. They require more sideways force than small machines can take. Steve doesn't want a better quality knurler, he needs a bigger lathe!

Scissor type knurlers are good for small machines because much of the force needed to squeeze knurls is provided by the balanced clamp. Not necessary to be a gorilla with a big lathe to make them work. Their disadvantage is they take more time to set-up than the bump-type.

Not necessary for a knurler to be well made. All it has to do is hold the wheels in more-or-less the right place. Knurling wheels don't have to run particularly true. However, as they take a fair hammering the wheels should be tough, otherwise the edges deform, rapidly wear out and spoil the knurl. Replace the wheels, not the whole tool.

I use an ordinary inexpensive scissor knurler, admittedly mostly on brass and aluminium, and it's fine after seven years. The wheels show no sign of wear yet. Not the best tool for production knurling steel, but 'good enough' for most hobby purposes I think.

For production work, the scissor knurlers are far from ideal – too much time wasted setting them up, and the knurls aren't of the best. For excellent consistent results, you need a Cut Knurler and a big machine:

 

The Dorian item illustrated above is yours from MSC at reduced price – only $1129.13

Dare I remind everyone again that engineers avoid the word 'quality' like the plague. In the absence of purpose, specification and value 'quality' is utterly meaningless. Other mindless words can be substituted:

• I want a quality lathe
• I want a nice milling machine
• I want a decent bandsaw

Provided tools are fit for purpose and value for money, excess quality is irrelevant, as is where they are made. You do of course have to define what 'fit for purpose' and 'value for money' mean in your workshop. Anything less thoughtful is lazy, because unless money is unlimited we have to navigate between 'too cheap' and 'too expensive'. Professional engineers are highly cost conscious. For hobby purposes, I find mid-range stuff from reputable UK suppliers mostly acceptable, send the odd item back if it's no good, and never chase 'quality' unless there's specific need for it.

Being an old cynic I reckon most 'quality' tools in a home workshop are placebos. The job could be done just as well with ordinary kit. But whatever makes you happy!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 04/08/2021 12:52:18

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Baz on 04/08/2021 08:50:12:

NDIY how do we know Steve bought the Knurling tool from RDG? I can see three sponsors who sell Knurling tools, Arc, Warco and Chester.

Because he posted that he had ordered it. I expect it arrived. I expect he has used it. I expect he has found it wanting…

edited to add what steviegtr actually wrote on the forum in a recent thread, which I found by searching for ‘knurling’

“By the way i have just ordered one from RDG tonight Clamp type , knurls up to 33mm. £19.95.”

Edited By not done it yet on 04/08/2021 13:27:08

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Yes i did buy from RDG tools. I had a bit of fettling to do with it & it works just fine. The reason i want to make a better designed one is.

The one i have is very hard to tension the jaws. The ratio is not great. Also the tensioner is very near the rotating work & bothers me a tad when tensioning because of the effort needed to turn it. The Meek design caught my eye with the tensioner at the back.

I also thought it would be a nice little project to do. Thanks for all the comments & answers as always.

Steve.

Edited By JasonB on 04/08/2021 16:07:55

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

I thought that I'd posted a correction to my post earlier, but must have forgotten to press the "Add posting" button, so …..

I erroneously credited Graham Meek's design to his book "Projects for your workshop". Although there are a couple of incidental pictures of it in there, it was in fact published in Engineering in Miniature. Volume 35, issue 5 (November 2013), and possibly subsequently in further editions of his "projects" series books.

Apologies to Graham and Steviegtr for the wrong information and any confusion caused.

Humble pie for dinner tonight.

John

[Craig BrownParticipant @craigbrown60096]

Posted by Steviegtr on 04/08/2021 16:06:29:

The one i have is very hard to tension the jaws. The ratio is not great. Also the tensioner is very near the rotating work & bothers me a tad when tensioning because of the effort needed to turn it. The Meek design caught my eye with the tensioner at the back.

I'm assuming you are trying to apply tension with the knurls on the stock? The way I use the scissor type tool is to set the tool so the wheels just drag the stock at the top and bottom then move the carriage off the work then apply some "cut", start the lathe and bring the wheels back onto the work (a good chamfer on the stock helps here). I have always had good success this way

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Yes Craig i could do that. Although i have seen the one by Graham Meek & i like that idea. Guess i will have to buiy his book to get the drawings for it.

Steve.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 04/08/2021 08:23:34:

The Hemingway kit is based on the Marlco knurler which is the best of the lot imo. They aren't cheap but worth looking at.

Yes, Hemingway do two options – the ‘basic’ and ‘sensitive’ 9Marico?). A fairly comprehensive build log was provided on the forum, quite recently, by Mark Elen (a couple of years back?), but I think that was the basic version.

I would expect the sensitive option, built carefully, to be far, far better than a twenty quid chinese jobbie.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by not done it yet on 04/08/2021 19:41:24:

Posted by Hollowpoint on 04/08/2021 08:23:34:

The Hemingway kit is based on the Marlco knurler which is the best of the lot imo. They aren't cheap but worth looking at.

Yes, Hemingway do two options – the ‘basic’ and ‘sensitive’ 9Marico?). A fairly comprehensive build log was provided on the forum, quite recently, by Mark Elen (a couple of years back?), but I think that was the basic version.

I would expect the sensitive option, built carefully, to be far, far better than a twenty quid chinese jobbie.

Yes i agree. I did have a look at the kit. At least you get the stock & drawings for it. I got a fair few different wheels from the guy i bought the mill from so don't have to buy them.

Steve.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

A frame based knurler has the advantages of simplicity in design and if on centre height then no need to worry about accuracy of centring horizontally or buying kits,

pgk

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The Marlco has a lever and cam arrangement for increasing force during cut. Very effective and you can feel whats going on.

Like all of us at some time or other Steviegtr is stuck in the price performance ratio thing. "How good does something need to be to do what I want. How much will it cost." I've finally recognised that for me pretty much nothing below 3/4 of high end performance will ever be satisfactory. Its the last 1/4 of high end performance that costs the real money, 3/4 is generally within flexible friend range.

I shudder to think how much time and money I've wasted over the last 50 odd years messing around at the inexpensive end. From things that no amount of mucking about with would get to beyond marginally satisfactory, however cheap! To the more insidious trap of going a bit further up the price scale and expecting a boy to do a mans job. Realistically expecting too much of it but getting the job done, slowly, with care, cursing and scrap.

Overall I'd certainly have spent less doing the "uber cheap to see if I actually want it" thing then going straight to the 3/4 high end performance jobbie. But my flexible friend would have been distinctly miffed most of the time! Its the "boy to do a mans job" and "fixer-upper " stuff that got me every time.

Clive

Who has been a tool-aholic basically for ever!

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