Kittiwake Major – A Bit of a Mystery!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Does look like all aluminium, by way of comparrison these are the Magnesium crankcase and aluminium carb castings from a similar vintage Stuart Lightweight, you can see the much blacker magnesium.

You will have to get a boating pool put in at MEX then we can try my 30cc lightweight up against your 30cc Kittihawk

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 18:43:31:

@Jason/Rod – There's no index to those articles that I can find,

 

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If some kindly Adminstrator was persuaded to change the permissions on this directory, we could browse the contents.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 19:28:47

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Even this moderator gets told he does not have permission to look at the directory when he tries

Edited By JasonB on 23/05/2016 19:30:37

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 23/05/2016 19:29:30:

Even this moderator gets told he does not have permission to look at the directory when he tries

.

I guessed as much … It's a job for a system administrator, not a Moderator

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 23/05/2016 19:11:00:

You will have to get a boating pool put in at MEX then we can try my 30cc lightweight up against your 30cc Kittihawk

It's passed through my mind to use it to power the Super Adept, but over a horsepower might be a bit much!

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 20:40:38

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 19:27:45:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 18:43:31:

@Jason/Rod – There's no index to those articles that I can find,

.

If some kindly Adminstrator was persuaded to change the permissions on this directory, we could browse the contents.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 19:28:47

I doubt that can be done as I am 99% sure there are documents in there that we are not free to share.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 20:40:19:

Posted by JasonB on 23/05/2016 19:11:00:

You will have to get a boating pool put in at MEX then we can try my 30cc lightweight up against your 30cc Kittihawk

It's passed through my mind to use it to power the Super Adept, but over a horsepower might be a bit much!

Neil

I thought you would be using the Adept as the anchor

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 20:42:23:

I doubt that can be done as I am 99% sure there are documents in there that we are not free to share.

.

Fair enough … It was worth a try

Such decisions [apparently expedient at the time] often come back to bite us.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/05/2016 21:02:29

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There are also failed versions in there – if you upload a corrected version of a file you seem to have to use a new filename. To be honest, the whole system is full of things like the preview pages for each issue of MEW and there doesn't appear to be a way to remove them.

Ho hum!

Neil

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Neil,
I did not realise there would be so much interest in this engine. Seeing yor pictures of the parts layed out I now remember making the rocker shaft I think when I was in my late teens or early twenties.I dont think it is finished. My father did all the rest of the work on the engine before I was born or old enough to remember.

Les.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Oh well, pity about the articles.

Back to the engine though, it's a very interesting project and working to a genuine blueprint is seriously cool

I think getting the surface finish back is going to be difficult since the aluminium oxide that has formed is going to be considerably harder than the base metal. I'd do all the required machining and think about the surface when the engine is running.

I acquired a set of Kestrel castings from Eric but I'm quite scared of starting on these since replacements are not available

Good luck, when I'm back home from Yorkshire I'll have a look at the Kittihawk in vols 91/92

Rod

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Although the corrosion that forms on aluminium is hard, it is generally not attached all that well to the parent metal so it will usually clean up OK. I once had an old (prewar) BSA crankcase bead blasted to clean it up after it had spent time under a hedge. The part that had been in contact with the ground had actually wasted away by up to a 1/16 or so, but looked reasonably acceptable after bead blasting.

I still haven't opened the right box to find the 1944 issue, but don't worry, the process is doing the state of my collection a lot of good. Instead of being in boxes, the bulk of it is now in its cupboards. This frees up floor space, making it easier to open other boxes….

regards

John

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The other option on th external surfaces is to paint them if the alloy won't clean up to a bright finish, If you have a look through the Tether boats, cars and engines album on the other MEM flickr account you will see some that are painted, certainly a couple of fully painted water cooled ones there and a lot of black aircooled cylinder fins.

The rocker bracket would look best left bright, if that won't clean up well you could cut a new one from solid as that seems quite corroded.

J

PS I think they have a wrong description against their Kitty Hawk or is it yet another version?

PPS If you wantto waste a few hours have a look at the rest of the collections

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Les Jones 1 on 23/05/2016 22:02:51:

Hi Neil,
I did not realise there would be so much interest in this engine. Seeing yor pictures of the parts layed out I now remember making the rocker shaft I think when I was in my late teens or early twenties.I dont think it is finished. My father did all the rest of the work on the engine before I was born or old enough to remember.

Hi Les, you'll be pleased to know the rocker shaft has come up really nicely and so has the crank.. I think the Evaporust is near the end of its life so things are going slowly, but the liner looks like honing might rescue it, but yes that 'big lump' will provide a new liner if required.

John, thanks for your patience, but it's a an awful lot to copy. For reference (not to make you get them!) the issues for Kittiwake appear to be:

2275, 2279, 2281, 2283, 2285, 2287, 2289, 2291, 2293, 2295, 2297, 2329

I think this is too much to expect you to copy them all, I think I have all key details in the book 'Model Petrol Engines'. I would be particularly interested in the issue 2295 article though, as the Oil Pump looks like it need a fair bit of care (and some more explanation of the valve arrangement) and it could be a good place to start.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 23/05/2016 18:43:31:

Here is the original blueprint:

The plans are definitely marked Kittiwake Major:

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Neil,

May I return to the matter of the BluePrint ?

I think this is, in itself, an important historical document

… What do you intend to do with it ?

My suggestion would be to dismantle it into convenient pieces; then scan all the pieces and reconstruct digitally [subject to no objection from Kennion's, this could and should be shared with the world]

… Then [with the information safely captured], physically reconstruct the artefact as an 'exhibit'.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Michael surely if it is an important document the last thing to do is pull it apart to make it fit an A4 scanner. Far better to get it scanned on a large format machine then if you wish to divide it up that can be done digitally which would allow pages to be placed to suit teh part not where a fold comes across a part.

I would also be wary of displaying it as an exhibit as some of teh old reproduction processes can fade in daylight.

But agree it would be good to share the drawing as it could always be made from solid or homecast

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Hi Neil,

Well, I am not going to try to scan them all in one session. Actually so far the 2275 issue continues to elude me, it might be one of the ones that never made it out here. I have got at least some of the others, and I have scanned the first two pages of the oil pump one for you. As you will see this is a bound volume, however they open up enough to give a reasonable scan. I've done the scans to 1200 dpi to give you plenty of detail. I will scan some more, perhaps you would like to PM me with an email address so that I don't have to fill up the album space here.

Speaking of historical blueprints…I have one for a Jackson-Rigby uniflow engine, designed by Henry Greenly and dated 1923. I have the engine too, and apparently the castings for those were done in the workshop of the Romney Hythe and Dymchurch railway.

regards

John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 24/05/2016 10:07:05:

Michael surely if it is an important document the last thing to do is pull it apart to make it fit an A4 scanner. Far better to get it scanned on a large format machine then if you wish to divide it up that can be done digitally which would allow pages to be placed to suit teh part not where a fold comes across a part.

I would also be wary of displaying it as an exhibit as some of teh old reproduction processes can fade in daylight.

But agree it would be good to share the drawing as it could always be made from solid or homecast

.

Jason,

I would be "pulling it apart" for proper consevation, anyway.

Yes, I know about fading … that's why I carefully put 'exhibit' in quotes, rather than suggesting it would be on general display.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I think the drawing is probably the original for Kittyhawk – I doubt if it was retraced.

The name change was probably to avoid confusion.

I think I can scan it two leaves at a time, it has only torn along the horizontal split.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks John, it's an interesting one that suggests ETW expected it to be up to long-term duty.

I also note that the head has plenty of space for a full-size spark plug, my spare one for the Suffolk engine appears the right size and is a lot less tall than a typical car plug.

Is there anything available that sits between a small standard plug and a 1/4" miniature one, I wonder?

I popped the rocker box in evaporust for 40 minutes as an experiment, bearing in mind it isn't acid or alkaline (works by chelation) I fancied it might do something – in fact it worked very well, afterwards the crud rubbed off with a kitchen scratchy, i couldn't see any loss of metal.

I've cleaned and oiled the crankshaft. The paper and the ends are a bit pitted, but all the inside parts look like they have just been machined. A golden colour suggests that it was brazed, not silver soldered.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot of models use the CM-6 plug which has a M10x1 thread, should fit that size head well and is what I'm using on the lightweight, most of my Hit & miss engines also have this plug.

Rimfire also do a 5/16" plug

Edited By JasonB on 24/05/2016 12:52:24

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Thanks, that's a lot smaller than a J17LM, which apparently is a 'special' made for lawnmowers. Only 1.33" long so should be excellent proportions to go with this engine.

neil

[cParticipant @c]

Neil has helped me post this link showing the records found in the ME Index, when searched for "Kittiwake". I have removed two that referred to a high wing monoplane.

Chris

**LINK**

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Well, here's a coincidence – a kittiwake at Bempton Cliffs today:

I can't tell from this angle whether it's a Mk I or a Mk II. NRM tomorrow

Rod

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Nice shot, Rod

I have lasting memories of Bempton

We stayed in a B&B there, and foolishly parked under some trees …

Next morning the roof of the car was copiously splatted with 'guano' from the Rock Doves.

I took it straight to a car wash, but the damage was already done … it had etched through the lacquer top-coat.

MichaelG

[Author]

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