Kingscale 5″ models

[Alan Marshall 1Participant @alanmarshall1]

I have just taken delivery of the A4. Its a very nice finished loco but it is sat in the workshop until both the lockdown is eased and the weather improves, then I can get my boiler tests done and see how it steams and runs.

[Andy W 44678Participant @andyw44678]

Posted by Philip Durrell on 13/02/2021 12:41:28:

Hi there all. There doesn't appear to be much going on re the Kingscale 5 inch loco's on this site but I feel it deserves to be updated. I recently took delivery of one of their 5 inch gauge Black 5's and after a while in store ran one of the tank engines they produced. This was an exercise for the boilier inspector at our club before he went through the hydralic tests. The engines were excellent. They ran very very well once a couple of small issues were sorted (sticking cylinder cocks, stiff hand pump etc). The standard on the new engines is a lot, lot better and I would not say there was anything to say about them other than they are very good indeed. For the price and what you get excellent. I am happy to share any experiences with them.

I would be very interested to hear about the Back 5 have you managed to drive it yet ? they look very nice thanks

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

I asked Mike Pavie at a show if it came with drawings so I could take it apart and maintain it in the future. He said "No, its my hard work why would I give you a drawing"

[Philip DurrellParticipant @philipdurrell90931]

I suppose its Mike’s prerogative as to if he would be prepared to release the drawings or not. My view would be that anything that would involve a simple disassembly would be familiar enough by your talking it apart to logically reassemble; Having spent a lot of time under, over and about the engine poking and prodding at various bits I can’t see much that wold go wrong (famous last words no doubt). As for the engine, very good indeed. I had a 5 inch 5 some years ago and I thought it was good but the Kingscale engine is a lot better. lots of power, makes a sounds 4 even to the bar when working and pretty responsive. My only issue (a personal one) is that I wish I could fettle something up suitable enough to fire the loco better.

[Andy W 44678Participant @andyw44678]

Posted by Philip Durrell on 21/02/2021 23:18:43:

I suppose its Mike’s prerogative as to if he would be prepared to release the drawings or not. My view would be that anything that would involve a simple disassembly would be familiar enough by your talking it apart to logically reassemble; Having spent a lot of time under, over and about the engine poking and prodding at various bits I can’t see much that wold go wrong (famous last words no doubt). As for the engine, very good indeed. I had a 5 inch 5 some years ago and I thought it was good but the Kingscale engine is a lot better. lots of power, makes a sounds 4 even to the bar when working and pretty responsive. My only issue (a personal one) is that I wish I could fettle something up suitable enough to fire the loco better.

Cheers Phill Thanks for your reply

I have ordered one, I can resist anything but temptation what did you mean by firing better ?

[Peter Seymour-HowellParticipant @peterseymour-howell39349]

Posted by Buffer on 21/02/2021 19:38:49:

I asked Mike Pavie at a show if it came with drawings so I could take it apart and maintain it in the future. He said "No, its my hard work why would I give you a drawing"

I'm afraid that with an attitude like that I wouldn't buy the model. All steam locomotives no matter what their origin will need parts replacing at some point in the future. This could be a simple replacement of motion bushes or complete new parts, some (most) of which needing a drawing. You can't guess dimensions on most motion parts.

Perhaps Kingscale keep an extensive spares list??

Pete

[Dave Smith 14Participant @davesmith14]

Whilst it is probably not what some people would want to hear. You are buying a product not the design, that is is Kingscales IP. It is the same for any commercial product, you would not expect to get all the drawings for a car or a toaster. What I would expect however is a set of maintenance instructions and a full spare parts list with exploded diagrams.

Dave

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Philip Durrell on 13/02/2021 12:41:28:

Hi there all. There doesn't appear to be much going on re the Kingscale 5 inch loco's on this site but I feel it deserves to be updated. I recently took delivery of one of their 5 inch gauge Black 5's and after a while in store ran one of the tank engines they produced. This was an exercise for the boilier inspector at our club before he went through the hydralic tests. The engines were excellent. They ran very very well once a couple of small issues were sorted (sticking cylinder cocks, stiff hand pump etc). The standard on the new engines is a lot, lot better and I would not say there was anything to say about them other than they are very good indeed. For the price and what you get excellent. I am happy to share any experiences with them.

Hi. I sent you 2 pm's last month which you haven't picked up. If you read this can you have a look and reply? Many thanks

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Buffer on 21/02/2021 19:38:49:

I asked Mike Pavie at a show if it came with drawings so I could take it apart and maintain it in the future. He said "No, its my hard work why would I give you a drawing"

It may not be quite as simple as just making a set of "drawings" available these days.

I had a chat with Mike several years ago about the Kingscale design 'process' and I had the clear impression that some of the final design work was in collaboration with the Chinese manufacturer using their 3D CAD system. Mike apparently has access to this CAD software and I remember him saying that it was a very advanced system (of Chinese origin) and at least as good as anything he had previously seen or used from other CAD providers. A collaborative process would make sense, as there must be quite a lot detail in a manufactured design that would need to be influenced by the production processes.

So I think these things are a bit more complex than just the old concept of a "set of drawings" – although I agree that this doesn't preclude the provision of good supporting documentation.

Finally, I would also like to say that Mike is very well known and respected in Gauge '3' circles. His own-built locomotives are prized for their high quality and excellent performance. He was also probably one of the most prolific builders of small live steam locos in the UK at one time. I'm not sure of his total output but I'd be fairly sure it's well north of fifty engines – all built to very high standards.

Regards,

IanT

[RMAParticipant @rma]

As a customer of Kingscale I would like to say that their approach to business, customer support and contact is second to none! I wish all companies were the same.

IanT is right, they do use 3D CAD, Solidworks from memory and they have sent me the details that I requested, which were for information really and not for me to make components. I wouldn't expect them to supply a complete set of drawings!

Anyone thinking of buying from them shouldn't hesitate as each model is made in short batches. The detail is quite spectacular and to try and make anything similar in your own workshop would take forever.

[Alan Marshall 1Participant @alanmarshall1]

Anyone with one of their A4's run them yet after all the lockdown issues preventing running?

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