King Cotton

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Earlier today I was reading the article by Roger Backhouse – Part 2: Queen Street Mill – sights and sounds of old cotton mills in the U.K..

It used to be a great adventure visiting such places, print works and dye-houses from the late 1980's through to the late 1990s. It was sad to see many of these places shut. The last place I visited was a tartan weaving mill in Seafield near Aberdeen. Just before their buildings were demolished to make way for affordable housing, I purchased all their machines and exported them to Tanzania, for use in a blanket making factory.

After this brief moment of sadness going down memory lane, it was a joy to read about the birth of a a new cotton spinning and weaving mill in Tameside, Greater Manchester. See this BBC link . It will be even better to see the finished product made from this production in M&S next year.

Ketan at ARC

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

King Cotton

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Day off today was it if you have time to sit about reading?

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Noticed that too, M&S really need to up their clothing quality according to the women I know. so they should do well hopefully

On the downside it's a German company and probbly using foreign made equipment (I couldn't find who made the kit) but at least it's a start

A ton of textile skills got lost in the 1980s/90s

Edited By Ady1 on 15/08/2016 14:29:06

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by JasonB on 15/08/2016 14:27:58:

Day off today was it if you have time to sit about reading?

All read during lunch Jason

U.K. made looms went a while back Ady1. I can remember being amazed and worried (for various reasons), when I saw the first Japanese jet looms weaving denim back in the 1990s. Perhaps this kind of advancement is something our next generation has to look forward to.

Ketan at ARC.

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

The trouble is that this mill and Helmshore are scheduled to close soon There will be no textile museums left in Lancashire as there are no coal related museums either What are we leaving our future generations ?

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Ady1 on 15/08/2016 14:28:23:

On the downside it's a German company and probbly using foreign made equipment (I couldn't find who made the kit) but at least it's a start

A ton of textile skills got lost in the 1980s/90s

Just thinking about it Ady1, the upside of German owned may be that they may bring a new way of thinking for the management?

Last of a 'wide span' fabric printing factory existed in Maccesfield, with skilled workers – grandparents, their children and grandchildren – who were trained on the latest printing machines made in Italy. They printed expensive scarves, and included blue chip customers such as British Gas and Liberties at the time. I saw their accounts when the factory was being offered for sale in the 1990s (later liquidated). Top level 'British management' – Corporate (not family owned) were out playing golf – most days – for want of phrase, with salaries way above what one would expect to see. The company still made a reasonable profit, and the skilled workers were still happy to show you how the machines worked, even when they were aware that the closure was only around he corner. The operative phrase was: 'The American owners wanted rid as the profit failed to meet their requirements' or something along those lines, but no one could show – demonstrate to the American owners where the 'top heavy' costs were, because how could anyone (inside the factory) accuse the top level 'British' management of incompetence?.

So, even though this place may be foreign owned, it may bring in new ideas, in the same way as we exported our great ideas to the rest of the world?

In addition to foreign machines being used – which are probably very efficient, we have to remember that the raw cotton was and will always be foreign, unless we are able to grow this?

Bottom line: The fabric will be once again Made in Britain.

Ketan at ARC.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

"What hasn't changed though, is the actual fundamental principles behind cotton spinning"

That's why there will always be a need for familiarity with the process on the manual scale of things.

Michael W

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Any mention by the BBC of a foreign ccmpany investing in the uk in the wake of Brexit —or has that slipped their minds?

I suppose you will say it was pre Brexit!!!!

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

My old befuddled memory seems to recall that M&S were really helping to keep what remained of the UKs textiles industry going in the 1980s, then in the early 90s with all their competitors selling sub standard but cheap far eastern stuff by the shedload on the high street in the UK they finally changed their "buy-uk" policy and that was the final nail in the coffin for our textiles industry

I've got an old video somewhere on it, interesting stuff

[john swift 1Participant @johnswift1]

that ties in with when the raelbrook factory in Rainhill St Helens stoped making shirts for M&S

I understand the imported shirts needed re working by factories here in the UK  to make then fit to sell !!!!

John

 

Edited By john swift 1 on 15/08/2016 22:18:19

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 15/08/2016 20:20:27:

Any mention by the BBC of a foreign ccmpany investing in the uk in the wake of Brexit —or has that slipped their minds?

I suppose you will say it was pre Brexit!!!!

Sure is. Supported by a grant from the Regional Growth Fund (British Govt) which was cut in the 2015 Spending Review and is unlikely to provide more help.

It will be interesting to see what the government does about the RGF and similar programmes some of which are directly funded by the EU. Will they be maintained?

Before Brexit UK economic policy was aimed at reducing the deficit, which is why the RGF was a casualty of the Spending Review. Leaving the EU opens up the possibility that UK government might be able to support industry more than is already allowed by the GBER, but one has to wonder where the money will come from. This must be a concern to a government previously committed to reducing public spending, and one generally in favour of market forces.

Higher taxes and more borrowing are the most likely way to raise the cash if government decides to support industry more. PFI and PPI deals are a possibility but they have some serious disadvantages. I think it unlikely that significant private money will come to the UK until investors better understand the likely consequences of exit.

Although the company has a German parent, it appears to be half British.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/08/2016 22:42:58

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by john swift 1 on 15/08/2016 22:17:00:

that ties in with when the raelbrook factory in Rainhill St Helens stoped making shirts for M&S

I understand the imported shirts needed re working by factories here in the UK to make then fit to sell !!!!

John

Edited By john swift 1 on 15/08/2016 22:18:19

It wasn't just shirts, a while ago, a factory i worked for produced assemblies, bought in from china and re worked, and sold as "made in E.U", was totally illegal really, because they buy them on that premise, and are not told about it, had i stayed there longer, i would've loved to have spilled the beans.

Michael W

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It's a great time to re-invest via government debt, the current rate is what? 0.25%?

But "policy" won't allow it at the moment, seems bonkers to me but governments can be very dogma ridden

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Walters on 15/08/2016 22:41:23:

… a while ago, a factory i worked for produced assemblies, bought in from china and re worked, and sold as "made in E.U", was totally illegal really …

.

Michael,

This may not actually have been "totally illegal"

It's worth reading this page: **LINK**

http://www.twobirds.com/en/news/articles/2014/global/european-parliament-votes-for-compulsory-made-in-labels

The key point is in the words: "… the country of origin will be the one where it underwent "the last substantial, economically justified processing" resulting in a new product or representing "an important stage of manufacture".

MichaelG.

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 15/08/2016 22:41:19:

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 15/08/2016 20:20:27:

Any mention by the BBC of a foreign ccmpany investing in the uk in the wake of Brexit —or has that slipped their minds?

I suppose you will say it was pre Brexit!!!!

Sure is. Supported by a grant from the Regional Growth Fund (British Govt) which was cut in the 2015 Spending Review and is unlikely to provide more help.

It will be interesting to see what the government does about the RGF and similar programmes some of which are directly funded by the EU. Will they be maintained?

Before Brexit UK economic policy was aimed at reducing the deficit, which is why the RGF was a casualty of the Spending Review. Leaving the EU opens up the possibility that UK government might be able to support industry more than is already allowed by the GBER, but one has to wonder where the money will come from. This must be a concern to a government previously committed to reducing public spending, and one generally in favour of market forces.

Higher taxes and more borrowing are the most likely way to raise the cash if government decides to support industry more. PFI and PPI deals are a possibility but they have some serious disadvantages. I think it unlikely that significant private money will come to the UK until investors better understand the likely consequences of exit.

Although the company has a German parent, it appears to be half British.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/08/2016 22:42:58

Being out of the uk at the moment i do not get the latest news but has not Philip Hammond inferred that grants lost via EU will be replaced by UK govt . Although i am not sure how ——probably with chinese made shirt buttons!!!!!

Edited By Sam Longley 1 on 16/08/2016 08:23:07

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Walters on 15/08/2016 22:41:23:

It wasn't just shirts, a while ago, a factory i worked for produced assemblies, bought in from china and re worked, and sold as "made in E.U", was totally illegal really, because they buy them on that premise, and are not told about it, had i stayed there longer, i would've loved to have spilled the beans.

Michael W

IIRC In law 'country of origin' is, rightly or wrongly, the place where the last significant manufacturing process was carried out.

Neil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/08/2016 08:58:29:

IIRC In law 'country of origin' is, rightly or wrongly, the place where the last significant manufacturing process was carried out.

.

deja vu

06:50:34

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

It's the same with food: if it's processed in Britain then it's British, although it may have been grown or reared anywhere in the world. Going back to Ady1's contribution, I was in a Scottish wool mill a few weeks ago, and their only modern loom was made in Germany by Dornier – a name which has some bad memories from my very early childhood.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Being aware of the current economy and politics, makes this an even better 'good news' story, especially as it is giving new life to an industry which was otherwise lost to history. Long may such births continue.

If I ever get a chance, I would love to visit this new place. All we can do is wish them the best of success.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 16/08/2016 09:42:49

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Mike on 16/08/2016 09:33:24:

Made in Germany by Dornier – a name which has some bad memories from my very early childhood.

.

.

Never forgiven them for bombing ower chip shop in the last skirmish……………..

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Posted by Michael Walters on 15/08/2016 22:41:23:

Posted by john swift 1 on 15/08/2016 22:17:00:

that ties in with when the raelbrook factory in Rainhill St Helens stoped making shirts for M&S

I understand the imported shirts needed re working by factories here in the UK to make then fit to sell !!!!

 

Bit like what we do after buying imported toy workshop machinery?

Back in the early fifties, both parents worked in weaving sheds. Apart from the cacophony from the rows of outdated British machinery, one difference between the two companies was In mums, All Brits and in dads, despite the shed being full of Brits, (Talking MACHINERY), they'd got rid of half a dozen and replaced them with "Sultzers" which the old man used to walk past with glassy eyes.

Lets also not forget that when the die hards talk about cheap foreign textile imports, the "enterprising" Brits nicked the cotton trade from India originally.

 

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 16/08/2016 10:17:09

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Same goes for those who "nicked" our car industry

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/08/2016 06:50:34:

Posted by Michael Walters on 15/08/2016 22:41:23:

… a while ago, a factory i worked for produced assemblies, bought in from china and re worked, and sold as "made in E.U", was totally illegal really …

.

Michael,

This may not actually have been "totally illegal"…

The key point is in the words: "… the country of origin will be the one where it underwent "the last substantial, economically justified processing" resulting in a new product or representing "an important stage of manufacture".

MichaelG.

 

If you saw them you would agree. I know the interpretation of made can be stretched in some cases. Like where a forester chops down a tree and it's made into a table somewhere else. Thats fair enough, ok.

But we did literally nothing, we were a factory supposedly making these ourselves, but the production manager said we "couldn't be bothered with such a fiddly job, besides which they do it for pittance" and ordered them pre machined in Hong Kong.

We then literally checked them, either removed all their branding (or asked them not to in the first place). I couldn't believe we were supposed to be workers taking pride in what we do, and then shamelessly badge stamping someone else's work. I probably lost faith at that point. It's got nothing to do with disliking chinese work it's just the sheer dishonesty and nerve we had to take the credit for it, i had an unfortunate knack for asking too many questions i think. 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 16/08/2016 11:06:22

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by KWIL on 16/08/2016 10:37:19:

Same goes for those who "nicked" our car industry

I think that the British Management combined with their Corporate backers at the time had already milked the companies and their pension fund, and were happy to find a buyer with the help of the government (taxpayer you and me), so that they could off-load their future pensions liability. Good, bad or ugly is for future generations to deal with.

 

Edited By Ketan Swali on 16/08/2016 11:15:09

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