Kieninger RK Timekeeping

[Steve AddyParticipant @steveaddy35670]

Erratic variations in timekeeping

[Steve AddyParticipant @steveaddy35670]

In 1998 my father purchased a Keininger RK grandmother clock with moon phase dial. He also had a swan neck top long case from Craft Supplies in Miller's Dale. Total cost was £679.50. On my parent's passing, the clock became mine about five years ago. It has an irritating feature I'm at a loss to explain. Clocks are not really my thing, but I do like it. It has just chimed a quarter as if to chide me for insulting it!

When the clock has been adjusted and is keeping good time, it will suddenly start galloping away at a rate of minutes per day. The pendulum adjustment required to get it right again is considerable.

Does anyone have any bright ideas about the cause of my rubber pendulum?

[Dick HParticipant @dickh]

Could it be something to do with the way the drive chain flows over the drive cog? Sometimes chains open a bit and distort. Perhaps your parents wound it more often and never used the last bit of the chain. Just a daft idea else I can´t see what should change.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It sounds to me like the escapement may be skipping teeth … If so, it needs investigation a.s.a.p.

Can you see the escapement in action, or would it need putting on a bench stand. ?

MichaelG.

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https://www.kieninger.com/en/uhrwerke/rk-2/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/02/2023 19:04:26

[Steve AddyParticipant @steveaddy35670]

Thanks guys

In answer to Dick, I have just examined the driving chain with a very bright light, it still looks like new and shows no sign of the links opening up at the top.

To Michael, I can't see the escapement with the movement in the case.

I have watched it, and listened carefully for more than a minute, which ought to have run the escapement wheel through a full revolution. It isn't steam so I don't know! . The tick is very even and at the same angle at both sides of the swing. If the bloody thing suddenly went slower, I could imagine the screw at the bottom of the pendulum slipping, but not to make it shorter!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

If it’s ticking evenly then I regret to say I am bewildered

MichaelG.

[Steve AddyParticipant @steveaddy35670]

Thanks Michael. Glad it isn't just me. It usually does it when you make the final hair splitting adjustment. You then have to lengthen the pendulum and start again.

[Dick HParticipant @dickh]

No real insight except a discussion on the NAWCC where they noticed that when a weight descended to the height of the pendulum bob the weights started to swing in or out of phase with the pendulum. Shouldn´t happen if the clock is on a stable base or well fixed but even then.. Else strange, no idea, the usual cry is oil and or clean it.

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Each time it does it, and you reset the pendulum length to get it back to time, do you return the pendulum bob to the same place – or is the bob getting progressively lower with each resetting?

I would mark (Sharpie or something similar) the pendulum rod just above the bob when the clock is correctly adjusted. When it starts galloping again, see where the bob is relative to the rod. If it hasn't moved, where does it go to when you get it back into regulation? Do you lower the bob down and then wind it back up to the same place?

It's possible that something is moving in the suspension. The suspension spring is cracked or the mounting point is loose. It moves somehow (agreed that would usually slow the clock, but you never know), and the action of winding the bob down a bit and then back up resets things.

[david bennett 8Participant @davidbennett8]

If you observe the seconds hand, do you see any evidence of recoil? i.e does the hand move slightly backwards after each forward movement ?

dave.

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

This must be related to the escapement. It is a dead beat escapement, so no recoil would be evident. Nothing to do with the drive chain, it doesn't work like that.

Either the escapement is tripping, as said, or the crutch is slipping on the pallet arbor. There is a friction drive between the crutch and the arbor (that is the shaft) to allow setting the clock in beat. This is alright when new, but can be troublesome. Usually the clock just won't stay in beat, but If slipping badly it would allow the escapement to run away as described.  The pallets themselves are (from memory) retained on the arbor by a setscrew so that is also worth checking.

A new part is the best cure, preferably a complete assembly as the fit of the friction bush on the arbor is critical and it is not really repairable.   

 

Edited By Redsetter on 14/02/2023 06:16:13

[Steve AddyParticipant @steveaddy35670]

To Redsetter

Am I right in thinking this clutch also allows you to set the balance of tick and tock, bu adjusting the angular position of the pallets in relation to the pendulum? There is some vague memory from when Dad bought the kit.

[RedsetterParticipant @redsetter]

Posted by Steve Addy on 14/02/2023 11:49:55:

To Redsetter

Am I right in thinking this clutch also allows you to set the balance of tick and tock, bu adjusting the angular position of the pallets in relation to the pendulum? There is some vague memory from when Dad bought the kit.

Steve,

Yes, that's what it is for. With the pendulum stationary it only requires a slight finger pressure on the crutch (top bit of the pendulum) either way to get the tick correct. In theory, you can set it by giving the pendulum a good swing and it will settle down gradually in the optimum position, but when the clutch is worn it slips too much for any of this to happen. I think you may have a severe case of this.

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