Keyless Drill Chuck

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Good morning,

I went to buy a 10mm Keyless Drill Chuck from ArcEuro, but they are out of stock for some while. Can anyone recommend an alternative supplier of good quality, reasonably priced, KDC's?

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Supplier thereof?

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

RDG might have what you need.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

All the usual suspects RDG, Chronos ,Rotagrip etc

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

After looking at them as a result of another thread, it seems Ruwag stock KDCs for cordless drills, if that's the type you want. No arbor mounted ones, though.

Rob

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Grindstone Cowboy

Cordless drill keyless chucks aren't suitable for machine tools as they don't have the grip tighter under pressure capability. On the other hand they don't almost immediately loosen when pressure is removed.

Proper machine tool keyless chucks tighten up quite seriously under pressure which helps prevent drills spinning. The release tendency when pressure is removed helps undoing to get the drill out.

Never bottom out a drill in a good quality keyless chuck. The drill has to have bit of room to move back to drive the self tightening. If an Albrecht or similar bottoms out it's the very devil to undo. Hex shanks, like those on hole saw arbors tend to slip back with similar jam up results.

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 11/03/2023 12:40:02

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Thank you GC,

I want a 10mm KDC with No.3 MT (M12) for my mill.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Thanks Clive, I wasn't sure exactly what the OP was looking for. I'd been looking for a replacement chuck for my Milwaukee cordless drill as the original has some serious runout – from new!

I'll remember the tip about not letting drills bottom out in proper keyless chucks, though

Rob

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Get a cheap one from Ebay, Chinese of course but what isn't these days? Nothing wrong with that, they all do what it says on the tin and probably exactly the same product UK dealers sell but minus the retailer's margin. I have yet to be disappointed.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Some time agho, pre lockdown, I got a couple of Rohm ones from Tracy Tools, with 3 MT shanks, but mine were, or certainly now are 3/8 BSW.

Might not be in stock now.

Howard

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Chris Crew on 12/03/2023 16:28:53:

Get a cheap one from Ebay, Chinese of course but what isn't these days? Nothing wrong with that, they all do what it says on the tin and probably exactly the same product UK dealers sell but minus the retailer's margin. I have yet to be disappointed.

That’s OK if the buyer is up for ‘lucky dip’ about accuracy, I suppose. I would go to Rotagrip, as Arc are out of stock. Neither RDG nor Chronos would be high on my list.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I have 3 0 to 4mm keyless from rotagrip which are super accurate but it comes at a price and they have no makers name on them so where they come from originally is anybody's guess.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Hi ndiy,

Have you had problems with RDG and Chronos then?

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Amongst my selection of chucks, one which might fit your requirements is a Rohm Supra 10mm.
Mine was second hand and came off an old battery powered cordless hammer drill; yes hammer drill

They have the advantage of a locking ring, which seems to work quite well when used with a tap in the lathe, unlike some other keyless chucks, which tend to release the tap when you turn anti-clockwise.

Not cheap new, but there's a well used one on UK ebay at the moment
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125489670148

See also, from a recognised supplier, albeit at more than twice the price
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234084004567

The runout on mine, which has had a hard life, varies from 2 to 4 thou, depending on the diameter held.

Or New on Amazon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Röhm-Supra-Keyless-10-Seconds-871038/dp/B001MW79W2/ref=sr_1_9

Bill.

 

 

Edited By peak4 on 12/03/2023 18:56:29

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

I bought these keyless chucks from the Model Engineering exhibitions, probably around 15 years ago.

The black one on the left is a Vertex, with a very smooth operation and the unloaded jaws are precisely located with no play at all, although that is not particularly important. But the upper knurled collar is a steel pressing, and a bit of a dent is visible on the top edge from when I dropped it. I bought two of these, one for the lathe and the other for my mill.

The larger bodied chuck on the right is one from RDG, this also has a nice smooth action but has a nice thick solid steel knurled collar at the top and no brand name. Like a lot of RDG tooling at the ME shows this was on display piled in a heap in trays along with other taper tooling, so may at first appear to be possibly a bit cheap and nasty, but it is very good quality and has worked faultlessly and is used mostly in my Elliot drill press.

Although the RDG chuck has a much larger body than the Vertex item, they both have a maximum capacity of 13mm. Both these chucks can lose their grip if run in reverse, for instance when tapping.

Edited By Lathejack on 12/03/2023 21:18:31

Edited By Lathejack on 12/03/2023 21:19:46

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

Another vote for the Rohm Supra SK. Look for the red lock ring. An Ebay source of these is Hilti adapters, available also with many other chuck types. Item 225420242555 at present is a moth-eaten example but good/unused examples come up from time to time. The chuck just unscrews, though very tight. They all seem to be 13mm size, not 10mm, but they are quite compact.

Edited By Macolm on 12/03/2023 21:49:04

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Bo'sun on 12/03/2023 17:50:38:

Hi ndiy,

Have you had problems with RDG and Chronos then?

A couple of items, I bought at an exhibition, from RDG were, in my opinion, not up to scratch. No receipt, so had to put up with me buying cheap. Not bought much from Chronos and don't particularly expect high quality for low prices, so that puts them lower on my list. Chronos were quick to rectify one faulty part, mind.

I’ve (nearly) always been happy with Arc and Rotagrip – and have found both to be top notch re enquiries and service. Your requirements did not seem to particularly fit either RDG or Chronos. Gloster tooling would certainly be above them on my list, too.

You asked and that was my honest opinion. I sometimes have to order something from where I can get it. I work down the list of suppliers. You’ve had most of my list that would be appropriate for a drill chuck.🙂 I’ve certainly stopped buying anything that I can’t fix myself or afford to throw away, if sub-standard. That means very little of importance direct from China. I’m not that ultra-precise with my machining, but l try to avoid any supplier that I consider a risk of, shall we say, bottom end products.

Sorry if I should not have avoided mentioning those suppliers.- but I just disagreed with a couple of previous posts, I suppose. I’m just ‘picky’ when it comes to making purchases.🙂

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

Nothing wrong with being picky when it comes to splashing the cash.

Ketan must have a good relationship with suppliers, as the ARC keyless drill chucks are similar in price to RDG, Chronos and Warco.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Bo'sun on 13/03/2023 10:22:39:

Nothing wrong with being picky when it comes to splashing the cash.

Ketan must have a good relationship with suppliers, as the ARC keyless drill chucks are similar in price to RDG, Chronos and Warco.

Originally, when we started selling keyless drill chucks over ten years ago, return rate/rejection rate from end user customers was high (more than 3 returns within a short period of time). At the time, we had less understanding of the 'use of keyless chucks'/ pros/cons, quality of components and assembly. So we stopped selling them, and looked for alternative manufacturers paying attention to consistency, quality of components used and acceptable accuracy. After checking a few manufacturers, we settled on the factory we currently use.

Thereafter, return/rejection rate from customers has been very low, combination of product assembly issue and customer failing to understand the over tightening effects of a keyless chuck over time on certain (not all) repetitive jobs which require such chucks to be loosened and re-tightened in between the repetitive jobs, to avoid seizures of keyless chuck mechanism…. regardless of the chuck being made by ROHM or an other. However, I would quickly add ROHM will be more consistent and robust then most, due to the consistency of assembly and quality of components used. (I can see some readers suggesting that that is rubbish , and you are of coarse entitled to your opinion)

Nowadays we have a greater demand for keyless chucks from industrial customers (mainly 13mm and 16mm) resulting from word of mouth and regular procurement for these chucks, so we have to be consistent with the product we supply. However, we have been out of stock for all sizes because the factory we use ran into financial difficulties. I understand that a new investor has taken over the factory a few months ago, and I have been advised that our orders will be completed within the next two weeks and then shipment will take place. I would expect that we should have availability by mid-May this year.

Our buying agent has requested a meeting at the factory, which is expected to take place soon. If the factory delivers as stated, and provided we are happy with the factory visit – i.e. we get confidence in the factories future prospects, we will continue to work with them.

If the factory fails to supply, it will be pointless to have a meeting, and ARC will withdraw from selling keyless drill chucks, as current alternatives are outside the scope of our requirements.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused by the lack of availability from ARC.

Ketan at ARC

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

I'm about to purchase a Vertex 10mm KDC from Rotagrip. It has a J2S taper. Over a J2 taper, will the shorter taper (0.125&quot be detrimental? Please excuse the maybe silly question, it's the learning curve.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Bo'sun on 13/03/2023 16:28:42:

I'm about to purchase a Vertex 10mm KDC from Rotagrip. It has a J2S taper. Over a J2 taper, will the shorter taper (0.125" be detrimental? Please excuse the maybe silly question, it's the learning curve.

If used with a standard JT2 stub arbour, the JT2 stub will stick out a little more, but I am not a 100% sure. Also have a read of this thread.

Ketan at ARC

[Richard MillingtonParticipant @richardmillington63972]

I have a very old 0-8mm Rohm Supra, (MT2) made in West Germany, so that was before the wall came down. Still very accurate, easy to use with self tightening mechanism.This has a JT0 taper so I don't think the JT2S will be a problem.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Keyless chucks can be of such variable quality, I have a keyless chuck with my Chester V20 mill that was supplied with it when new, it appears to be of very good quality it has performed faultlessly. I also have a Bosch Hammer Drill, not cordless, and the keyless chuck as fitted to that is awful, it is impossible to use the hammer facility the chuck just comes undone, so frustrating. Dave W

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Dave

Keyless chucks for ordinary drills are very different animals to those used on proper workshop machines.

The proper type self tighten under load and loosen slightly, basically just enough to let you undo the thing, when the load is removed. Any attempt to use one like that on a hammer drill will cause it to undo instantly.

Ordinary drill style keyless chucks are just cheap hand tightened versions of the familiar keyed chuck slight geometrical differences that allegedly give a small degree of extra grip under load. Never seen any evidence for the self tightening myself.

If one of those is to stay tight when used with a hammer drill it must have locking facility otherwise the hammer action vibrates it undone very quickly. Some have an extra ring to engage the lock, some just go "click, I'm locked" when you securely hand tighten them. All the ones I've used are of the latter type, none have been very good. Makita cordless standard fare are good for about 4 holes when new but rapidly deteriorate. Mine are down to something between 1/2 and 1 1/2 holes in hammer. So I got a compact Makita battery cordless SDS drill, type DRH242Z, and never looked back. Affordable if you already have batteries.

Clive

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Samsaranda on 13/03/2023 20:51:26:

Keyless chucks can be of such variable quality, I have a keyless chuck with my Chester V20 mill that was supplied with it when new, it appears to be of very good quality it has performed faultlessly. I also have a Bosch Hammer Drill, not cordless, and the keyless chuck as fitted to that is awful, it is impossible to use the hammer facility the chuck just comes undone, so frustrating. Dave W

Isn’t that why the SDS type of drilling machines were developed?

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