Just getting started. Aylesbury.

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

…so after the round of “What’s it for threads?” I thought I’d better say hello officially 🙂

I’m 51, work in IT and I’m very bored with it. Over the coming years I want to sort of semi-retire into machining.

The idea being to make ends meet fixing things and doing (very) short production runs as well as indulging my hobby, classic motorbikes.

I’m starting from zero pretty much, no machines, no experience worth mentioning, just a healthy dollop of common sense and logical thinking.

I had been planning to get straight into it with a decent sized lathe and mill etc but two the two main things holding me back are space (3mx6m already quite full) and proximity to neighbours for the noise. I’m looking for a new house without those constraints but it’s proving tricky.

I’m now mellowing much more to the idea of more in the way of “bench top” machines to start with…in-fact more than mellowing. It’s the only way realistically I can make a start.

What I’d really like to is to take on someone’s hobby workshop in its entirety. That would really keep the costs down and get me up and running quickly. I wouldn’t retire from IT until I’ve built up enough skills so we’re probably talking 3 or 4 years down the line but I’m working as a contractor at the moment and seem to have big gaps between contracts these days.

Ok – that’s about it – wish me luck please 🙂

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The size of parts on your production runs are going to be the main deciding factor. If you want to make money then you don’t want to spend half an hour taking small cuts with a benchtop machine when a heavier industrial one will do it in 1/4 of the time.

Your other thread says a Hardinge may be a bit small so again anything over 11″ swing is not going to be a benchtop machine.

So decide what you really want to do and get the machine to suit the job.

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

The whole bench top is a way to learn…and if the house move or whatever never happens then will be how it stays.

Production will be absolutely not the norm I hope. The idea is to cover the bills restoring, modifying and fixing things ideally.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Sounds like you need to get CNC machines from the get go. IT background you should have no trouble learning CAD/CAM and you are set up then for small runs or one offs.

[Martin Kyte]

On Martin Kyte Said:

Sounds like you need to get CNC machines from the get go. IT background you should have no trouble learning CAD/CAM and you are set up then for small runs or one offs.

I’m hoping the vast majority of what I do is fixing stuff though which implies manual no?

Looking at the market – manual and CNC mills seem to be a thing but far less so lathes (in my price bracket)

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

No reason you can’t use CNC to repair or recreate old parts and castings. Often it will be better for things like unusual threads, tapers, decorative profiles etc.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

As well as requiring less kit like rotary tables, dividing heads etc. You can even do thread milling.

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

Hmmm…I just have this, probably naive view, that doing it all by hand is more enjoyable. Within reason, I’m doing this for the journey as much as the destination.

Not anti CNC at all. .just not at the expense of being able to operate manually too

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Welcome,

As you see already, this is the place to come for advice.

The size of machine will depend on what you want to do, and the budget.

Since you have limited space, you will need to plan your layout carefully.

If it is any consolation, I have a 12 x 24, and a small Mill drill in a 3 x 2 metre workshop. Cluttered and not for the claustrophobic or tidy.

Before you buy,read a few books.  They will help clarify your thoughts, and give some knowledge.

Start by just becoming familiar with the machine, merely cutting metal, then gain experience by making a few simple tools. In that way, you can make you mistakes on relatively cheap material, rather than something that cannot be replaced, or is expensive!

HTH

Howard

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

One way to make a start would be to investigate your local Men’s Sheds. Some have metalworking gear and people to show you how to use it, once you have actually tried to make something you will have a better idea what size and sort of machine you need.

[beeza650]

On beeza650 Said:

On Martin Kyte Said:

Sounds like you need to get CNC machines from the get go. IT background you should have no trouble learning CAD/CAM and you are set up then for small runs or one offs.

I’m hoping the vast majority of what I do is fixing stuff though which implies manual no?

 

Not necessarily.  I agree manual is more fun, at least for what I do, but recently I’ve hit the need to make large numbers of the same part.  Not difficult to make one by one manually, but very time consuming.  Soon gets old if more than a few are needed.   One answer is to tool up for production with jigs, fixtures, stops and form-tools etc etc.   These are often a project in themselves, only worth the effort if hundreds or thousands are needed.  CNC is a good alternative, or outsourcing; both require CAD skills,

Very helpful to identify the type of work before buying tools if you can!   What sort of repair work needs a lathe?   You may find it thin on the ground.    When caring for mum, we often watch Repair Shop on telly, she likes the stories, whilst I hope to pick up tricks of the trade.  The programme tackles a wide range of repairs and I must have seen hundreds of episodes.  Prominent in the background is a Myford Super 7, which is never used!  A watchmakers lathe gets frequent outings, repairing clocks and other light mechanisms, but Myford sized turning must be rare.  No sign of a milling machine either,

Starting out I expected to spend a fair amount of lathe time repairing, but it didn’t happen.  Partly because folk expect me to spend many hours making something from expensive Brass for the price of a pint and partly because it’s usually cheaper and better to mend by fitting  manufactured spare parts.   But maybe you’re into REMAP, or fixing vintage cars & bikes?    A friend who mostly specialises in that kind of work says it doesn’t keep him busy!

Lack of repair work didn’t spoil the hobby for me – it offers plenty of other interesting challenges.   I identified early on that I was into experimental work, and decided that made a fool-proof purchasing plan impossible.  So I bought a mini-lathe and some sets in the full knowledge they might be unsuitable for other than the learning experience.   Wasted a bob or too, but learned much from the mini-lathe, and had a much clearer idea of what I needed when I replaced it.  Main sin was being too small, and they have other shortcomings.

One interesting lesson was that a milling machine proved more useful to me than a lathe, and should have been first purchase.   Also, my most appreciated tool is an el-cheapo bandsaw; it eliminates the need to saw sizeable quantities of metal by hand.  For other than small cuts, hacksaws are tedious, exhausting, boring time wasters!

Dave

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

@sillyoldduffer

My plan is to fix stuff that’s worth fixing and make new stuff related to that. I see endless facebook and tiktok posts about folk doing work on old engines etc that haven’t got enough hours in the day. They’re doing to make a living, I’d be doing it to fund my retirement, very different things. Typically that’s going to be cars and bikes but, for example, repair of other machinery is fun (I did a 10month stint at 19/20 rebuilding book binding machinery).

I’ve pretty much worked out the way to start is small – in my garage – with second hand machines only (ideally a “inherit” a complete workshop). I’ll build my skills up in the very little free time ready for phase 2 when I move house – if that never happens then no harm done, I’ll keep everything for odd job repairs of my own classic bikes etc.

P.S. I doubt I’ll be doing anything big, but the second I say that I’ll want to skim a drum brake hub or something. Long stuff….hmmm…on a motorbike the longest thing i’d work on is probably an axle. Cranks would be a while away.

I’ll need to get good a welding and probably get a fair bit of gear in the space as a lot of repairs I see seem to be about repairing cracks or wear.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Have a look through this Forum. There is a post close to yours

There is someone (speedyn in Aylesbury) looking to sell his late father’s VERY well equipped workshop.

You could be completely set up, instantly.

Howard

 

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

@howardlewis46836 I just sent him a message – it said Berkshire rather than Bucks in his post, maybe Berks is where the bits are. Is it more than the lathe then? We’ll see.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

From some of the posts we get here of people wanting lathes for bike work they often want to be able to put a fork leg or steerer tube in the lathe so want a decent size spindle bore, you may find a Myford rather lacking in that respect, even a half decent size axle won’t fit up the bore.

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

@jasonb very good point. Thanks. Still, if it’s very local, it could be a good place to learn.

would have to be a hell of a lathe to get a fork leg through the spindle bore 🙂

One of the first jobs I need to do is take a tiny tiny bit of the end of a BSA A65 rear wheel spindle actually. It’s probably about .75 inch diameter so miiiiiiiight fit.

[James AParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Hello, Beeza650.

I happen to be in Aylesbury too. I am not sure whether you are aware, but although there is no local Men’s Shed now as far as I know, there is a Repair Barn at Princes Risborough that has a range of tools and workspace available. I do not know what tools they have, but it could be worth enquiring. Also, the Oasis Partnership have just opened a new community workshop in the centre of Aylesbury, somewhere. Details are scant at the moment, but it might be worth enquiring to see what they have to offer.

If you do get to a point where you are able to make small runs of “things”, I have a friend who often needs small runs of widgets for the vintage cars he repairs locally.

James.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

at 0.600″ bore it probably won’t so will possibly need a fixed steady to avoid excessive unsupported overhang. Not a problem when just working on your own stuff but the extra time setting up the steady will make repair jobs for others expensive.

[beeza650]

On beeza650 Said:

@sillyoldduffer

My plan is to fix stuff that’s worth fixing and make new stuff related to that.

That strongly suggests a big lathe, not starting small.   Best general advice is to buy the biggest machine you can afford and accommodate the reason being big lathes can do small work, whilst small lathes can’t do big.

Though possible to squeeze large work on to undersized machines, calls for ingenuity and takes time.   Where a big lathe simply accepts the job in a chuck and tailstock, the owner of a smaller machine is forced to use a faceplate, or mount the job between centres with dogs, and/or extemporise a tailstock with wooden blocks.   And then he finds the cutter can’t get close enough, so that has to be fiddled with too.   Setting up takes hours rather than minutes, which matters when doing paid work!

Probably an advantage to find a gap-bed lathe that also has a large diameter spindle hole.  The gap allows extra large diameter work to be turned, usually on the faceplate, and the spindle allows pipe and large diameter rod to be fed through the headstock.   (And if feeding rod through the headstock is a thing, don’t position the headstock end of the lathe in a corner!)  Probably for rigidity reasons, many big old lathes have surprisingly small spindle holes, so check!

 

I see endless facebook and tiktok posts about folk doing work on old engines etc that haven’t got enough hours in the day. They’re doing to make a living, I’d be doing it to fund my retirement, very different things.

That’s so, retirement provides time and flexibility.  However if ‘funding my retirement‘ is an important requirement, then I recommend writing a simple Business Case.  A money lender would insist on one, but they’re a useful sanity check.  How much work is there, what can be charged for it, how much has to be spent on tooling up, and how much will each repair cost to do?  Tax?  Insurance?  Allowing for bad debts?  Be honest!  Terrible to put time and money into an enterprise only to find it can’t be made to pay.   Extra painful if money has been borrowed to set up.  Manual work is expensive, horribly so if done on inadequate tooling, and customers will go elsewhere to avoid long waits and big bills!   Not an easy sure-fire way of making a living.   Hobby repair as a way of topping up a pension is safe enough, but relying on repair work to pay all the bills is high-risk.

 

 

Typically that’s going to be cars and bikes but, for example, repair of other machinery is fun (I did a 10month stint at 19/20 rebuilding book binding machinery).

I’ve pretty much worked out the way to start is small – in my garage – with second hand machines only (ideally a “inherit” a complete workshop). I’ll build my skills up in the very little free time ready for phase 2 when I move house – if that never happens then no harm done, I’ll keep everything for odd job repairs of my own classic bikes etc.

Very sensible, start with a low-risk learning phase.   Above all it will teach how fast you can work, or want to, and inform the ‘what next?’ decisions.  I’m a slow worker who makes silly mistakes.  Whilst I get there in the end, my low productivity is a factor, where I thinking of machining for money.

P.S. I doubt I’ll be doing anything big, but the second I say that I’ll want to skim a drum brake hub or something. Long stuff….hmmm…on a motorbike the longest thing i’d work on is probably an axle.

Yup, you might well find that skimming drums and discs is big business.  Though many can be done on a Myford sized lathe, bigger is better.

 

Cranks would be a while away.

Definitely needs a bigger lathe!

I’ll need to get good a welding and probably get a fair bit of gear in the space as a lot of repairs I see seem to be about repairing cracks or wear.

Yeah, very likely.   Again, size matters.  An electric welder that runs off a 13A socket is marginal for anything other than small work, so expect to upgrade the electrics.   A 32A socket and next size up welder solves a lot of problems.

As always much depends on the type of work being done.   And if the work must also be profitable then the financial side needs careful attention, unless of course job-satisfaction counter-balances cash losses.  Though I thoroughly enjoy turning and milling as a hobby, I wouldn’t want to earn a living from machining.

Please keep us informed, this is interesting.  Great when people succeed – gives me a warm glow!  Also educational to know what went wrong, so others can avoid the pitfalls and learn from how you tackled problems.

Best wishes,

Dave

 

 

[beeza650Participant @beeza650]

@sillyoldduffer Sure, I can absolutely keep the group in the picture. Just wanted to clear up something though – I intend to switch from earning to save/contribute to pension mode to “spend” mode. The slight hitch being that I don’t have a vast pension/savings so any supplement to that would be very welcome, almost necessary in fact. We’re not talking mega bucks, if I can see £25k profit per year that would be a big deal. The primary reason is to switch to something I enjoy and to hopefully, over time, treat it as a bit more than an unpaid hobby.

Interestingly, two people I’ve met in the last few months who all have very very lucrative machining type niches. One modifies gearboxes for drift cars and the other makes posh fidget spinners. I bet there are many other examples out there of people all doing their own special thing. My interest is currently wholly focused on “fix/repair/restore” but along the way I’d be pretty disappointed if I don’t invent something useful too.

One angle I’d love to go down initially is to get a job “sweeping the floors” at an old school workshop. The big problem there is that there isn’t anywhere I know of that’s a sensible drive from Aylesbury.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

£25K annual profit sounds like it could become a full time business!

But first, you will need to become familiar with whatever machine you acquire, and skilled in its operation, as well as measuring techniques and the instruments.

This will not happen overnight.

It is possible, just, to skim an 11″ disc in the gap, in a Myford 7 Series, a brake drum would be too long to go into the gap.

But it sounds as if you need something a bit bigger than that.

So think in terms of something like a used machine, as below, or if the budget will run to it, one of their gear head, or brushless DC motor successors.

A Chester Craftsman, Warco BH600, Engineers ToolRoom BL12 – 24 can swing 12″ over the bed and 18″ in the gap. The gap is a lot longer than that of the ML7.  And the spindle is 5 MT. They should come with a 3 – 5 MT sleeve

They have 12 speeds, compared to the 6 of the ML7, and a Norton gearbox is standard, and with the 120/127 Idler can cut metric or Imperial threads, if required. so can be more versatile. The BL12 – 24 should come with a few extra small changewheels to extend the range of feeds and threads.

The standard motor is a single phase 2 hp, (The ML7 usually has a 3/4 hp), but a VFD will improve availability of speeds, and smoothness. 1.5 hp, 3 phase might well prove adequate, if you want to remove metal quickly.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

“One angle I’d love to go down initially is to get a job “sweeping the floors” at an old school workshop. The big problem there is that there isn’t anywhere I know of that’s a sensible drive from Aylesbury.”

What is a ‘school workshop”? I have read stories about such things but assumed it was just made up to exist in down market Harry Potter schools.

I’m afraid this reminds me of someone on here a few years ago wanting to know about setting up a CNC mill. He was rich or dumb enough to drop £1k on a golf putter so thought he could set up a machine to knock them out by the thousand an make a fortune. Nowadays who would risk skimming a brake component because of the liability issues.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Beeza650

Looking in Classifieds, there is a Chester Craftsman for sale in Crewe.

You will need help, if you go for it, and probably a folding garage crane, with a sturdy vehicle, it is a 300Kg lump!

Howard

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