Juliet build diary

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

Hi Oliv,

It is still ok to nut the firebox stays but only really used as a method to hold the stay and the plates in place for silver soldering. You might be lucky be able to clean around plate and the nut and silver solder them in. Alternatively if you can remove the stays you have currently then I would do that and stick new rivets in and silver solder without the nuts, that seems to be standard practice- of course check with your boiler inspector about your plan of action!

The Juliet boiler is a relatively simple thing and is easy enough to make, I have a full kit to do a boiler and started to put it together but the pro one came along so had no need to bother with it, pure luck and "right place, right time". I might get round to it one day for a part built Juliet chassis I already have but other projects must come first, as is usually the case!

It's interesting to hear of people following the thread, I like to think that it's of some use to someone out there. I felt that as a pure beginner to loco building that just following the ME articles wasn't really enough (and is a bit outdated coming from 1947!). Maybe it will help someone make a quick an easy job of the build as well as encourage them to make a few personal changes to get the loco how they want it, I know I've added a few personal changes or because of material/equipment limitations.

Good luck with your engine Oliv!

Cheers,

Dan.

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Hi Dan,

 

Well, I was considering doing something with both methods : cleaning everything, remove the old lead solder and remove the sawn stays, then re-drill the holes, re-thread them the bigger size and make new copper stays with copper or brass nuts (original ones were brass, as Curly described).

BUT then silver solder them instead of calking with soft solder. Or just put a copper bar in and silver solder, but the screwed ones seem fine and it has worked so for decades !… I'll have to learn as I'l not an expert at all in silver soldering !

 

 

Edited By Oliv on 06/10/2016 11:46:42

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

Hi Dan

Regarding the proposed method of using soft solder, it is not something I would do but it makes the boiler inherently safe, if the water level gets too low it will quickly extinguish itself! Maybe I have missed a post, but why do you want to replace the stays? If you are not well versed with silver solder beware, cleaning the existing inner surface to the required level and getting heat in to it will be far from easy and may lead to other severe headaches. Keep us posted!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Oliv on 06/10/2016 11:41:51:d).

BUT then silver solder them instead of calking with soft solder. Or just put a copper bar in and silver solder, but the screwed ones seem fine and it has worked so for decades !… I'll have to learn as I'l not an expert at all in silver soldering !

I wouldn't – if there is any contamination with soft solder at all 9and how can you be sure its all gone?) the silver solder will become brittle.

Better to replace with nutted stays and perhaps use Comsol or similar, but check whatever you use is compatible with leaded solders.

Neil

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Hi Fizzy, yes you missed a post , it's not Dan but me who has a boiler with sawn / cut firebox stays !

 

Hi Neil,

 

Many thanks for this advice. I think I'll follow it, as comsol (lead, silver and tin, right ?) would melt well with the older solder although silver soldering would result in an heterogeneous solder…

a precision : I want to restore the loco as a vintage, antique item, like it was first designed by LBSC, and have it running stationary, not like a long-time runner (anyway, I have no 3,5" track here in France)

 

But i want the boiler to be somewhat sound and water-steam proof and especially non-dangerous…

 

And… Do you know where I could find Comsol ?

 

Edited By Oliv on 06/10/2016 14:34:33

Edited By Oliv on 06/10/2016 14:34:59

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

Hi fizzy,

Not my stays! just some advice to oliv and the boiler issue on their loco.

Hi neil,

Good point made on making the solder brittle, but in both cases I meant for the stays to be removed anyway, then nuts put back in then soldered after cleaning. However I do agree that the best method is to remove what is there currently and replace with fresh material but would add that personally I would silver solder then comsol over the top of the stays if I had any concerns with the joint.

Oliv,

3.5" gauge track isn't common in France or you just don't have a track yourself? Unfortunately I can't help with regards to comsol having never used it myself. I would be interested to see some pictures of your restoration project if you have any?

Cheers,

Dan.

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

3.5" gauge track isn't common in France or you just don't have a track yourself? Unfortunately I can't help with regards to comsol having never used it myself. I would be interested to see some pictures of your restoration project if you have any ?

Hi Dan,

live steaming is is not as practised here as in UK. There are few clubs. I live near Paris and the club I know in the area has only a 5" and 7 1/4" (which is already well !)

I essentially bought the Juliet because I like this model, it is quite simple and I wanted to have a loco in my hands to learn how they are made. For now I had only done with stationary engines, especially from Stuart Models.

I've done nothing to the Juliet yet, as I just have had it, I'd like to upload some pics but I don't know how (didn't take time to search…)

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

I must admit, for a small loco you won't do much better than a Juliet. The lbsc "Tich" is a small and complicated engine to build and run for a complete beginner and is so small that if you really are restricted with its pulling power and running capability. The 3.5" "Rob Roy" is a worthy contender for Juliet but is in a different class in my eyes as its just that tiny bit larger. So Juliet is a great choice of beginner loco in my opinion!

If you have access to basic metal working machinery and the confidence to have a go then your project should give some good enjoyment, I wish you luck with it and would love to see some progress photos (if you manage to figure out how to post them! )

Cheers,

Dan.

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Yes i have a super X1 mill and 2 lathes (one Fartools 350 and a bench lathe from Einhell (= Clarke and Sieg etc)

Many thanks for your opinion about the little Juliet (that's my opinion too). So tonight I oiled every oiling point and re screwed and re-aligned several parts to have the chassis running on air and I'm pleased it runs perfectly. That means if I fix the boiler the loco will be a good runner

About the photos, I use an iPad so I really don't know how to upload them

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Yeah I've found the button

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

have made a short video

Edited By Oliv on 07/10/2016 22:21:17

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Oliv,

I think you are rather hijackicking Dan's excellent thread of his own build, and your own boiler problems ought to be a seperate thread.

A few detailed further pics of your boiler plus inside the firebox would be of interest.

Cheers,

Julian

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

Not to worry, progress has been made on my own engine.

Over the past week or so (whenever the last update was?) I have been dedicating some time to the LH side tank and the axle pump. I made a right angle union for the bottom of the axle pump and made a union with piece of gauze soldered on top and fitted this in the bottom of the tank. The gauze used is fairly fine stuff and made of brass so soft soldered on to the union. The union was kept as close to the inside edge of the tank as possible (close to the frames). This is fairly important if you want neat pipe work otherwise it's quite a struggle to bend the necessary angles. So I bent the suction pipe from the side tank to the bottom of the pump and silver soldered the nipples into the ends. I must say I am quite happy with the results I've had with the pipe work so far, imho it makes a huge difference to the appearance of an engine if there is neat (-ish!) pipe work.

Next I made the top pump union. This is a double 45 degree "Y" shape job, but see the pictures in the album as they describe it easier than I can. It's 5/8" long x 1/2" dia brass cronstruction with two 1/4" x 40 unions silver soldered in. In made sense to me to do it this way rather than a tee piece because it uses one less piece of tube and no more brass and solder than making a tee (plus it looks fancy! ).

I just have to make the by pass pipe work and the pump-clack valve pipe work to finish off that LH tank and pump assembly.

I've made the whistle clip and whistle plumbing which looks good so in terms of plumbing only two more pipes to make.

The ash pan and grate have been fitted into the frames and the pin made to hold it all up. The pump eccentric only just clears the ash pan which is somewhat a relief but not much work to get extra clearance.

Photos uploaded soon!

Cheers,

Dan.

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

Lots of progress has been made on the Juliet in the past few weeks, however this does mean that the build thread is coming to a steady close.

As the time draws closer to having the loco in steam, I thought it was about time to start taking things off, cleaning, painting, sealing, gasketing, gland packing and eventually reassembling. So off came everything more or less, I started getting into the motion and packing the glands with graphite yarn and I packed the pistons with yarn as well rather than rings. I made gaskets for the cylinder covers and the valve chests and reassembled the inlet and exhaust pipes to test the chassis on air for a quick check. It was luck I did this as nothing worked, no power to the pistons at all, just going in and coming straight out of the exhaust. My thoughts were that the valves weren't seating properly so I stripped the valve chest off and had a look; this is where I found that I hadn't cut the hole in the gasket large enough to let the valve pass through it and so it was resting on top of the paper, letting the air blow past. So recut the hole, put it back and I tried the air again, power this time but no motion running. So had to time the engine again although I'm sure I didn't touch this when I took it apart!? Oh well managed to get the chassis running in the end.

Next up I set to painting the running boards, smokebox, door and saddle using some halfords spray…not bad stuff really. Once these were finished with they were fitted back to the chassis. All looking a bit posh now!

So on with the job (the aim to get it instead before a full paint), and started sealing the boiler fittings like the blower union and the wet header union. The super heaters were fitted and the blower put into its correct position (not a vital position on the Juliet- just don't block the blast pipe). I then marked out the boiler bands on brass sheet and cut these with the hacksaw, filed, drilled, tapped 7BA and bent round and fitted. They look good as they are made out of heavier gauge brass than standard bands.

The side tanks were then fitted to the running boards and sealed with a form of car windscreen sealant. The pipe work was fitted to the pumps and sealed up with ptfe tape (had to make the bypass and clack feed pipes for the axle pump). Once these were all fitted, the engine was basically ready for water and fire.

So outside on blocks, blower fan on and a fire lit. Within no more than five minutes the loco was in steam and running nicely. There were a couple of steam leaks from fittings but nothing that I didn't expect or already know about. The engine ran so well that I quickly made the decision to take it down to the track. Bundled my way down there, lit the fire, got a head of steam, got on the track and I was off. The loco didn't really struggle pulling me at all!

So in general, I was extremely impressed and very happy with the result…not bad for 2 years and a complete loco novice with a beginners engine!

Cheers,

Dan.

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Hi Dan,

Congratulations for this successful project ! Please add photos to your album, as I look forward to see this. Could you also post photos of all your pumps pipings ? It may be a good help for someone

Oliv

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Well done Dan!

Neil

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

A couple of videos to prove it!

I've also uploaded a couple more pictures to my album for those interested in seeing it. I wish I had taken a video of it on the rails…! Oh well, next time.

Oliv, good idea- I'll take some later on this evening.

Cheers,

Dan.

[Dan JonesParticipant @danjones77555]

Plumbing pictures are added for those interested…

Dan.

[OlivParticipant @oliv]

Many thanks Dan,

will you make a video of the Juliet running on the track ?

Cheers Oliv

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