John Smith Topsy Organ

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I made one of these some years ago. It runs off Midi files on a computer fed via USB to a midi de-coder which opens and closes the various air valves. The software I used was some obscure Linux affair that required me to type in various mantras, ie not GUI. I want to get it going again, but the old laptop which had Linux has disappeared, and I’d rather have a Windows GUI program anyway. Anyone got any suggestions. I must point out that I don’t understand MIDI at all.

 

I used to buy music files off Melvyn Wright, arranged to fit the limited notes available. I think I’ve read somewhere that he has died. Anyone know if this is true, and if so has anyone taken up the baton

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Duncan

I have no experience of the Topsy Organ … but I think you may find this of interest:

https://www.hobbytronics.co.uk/usb-host-midi

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ for others as naive as I

https://www.donjohnson24.co.uk/topsy.html

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I was amused to see this:

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In fact, the file opened almost instantaneously on the iPad

Moore’s law is demonstrated !

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I found the paperwork for the converter thing, it calls itself a MIDI to parallel converter, model MTP-7. I’ve emailed the manufacturers

J-omega, let’s see if they reply.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Looks quite  interesting:

https://j-omega.co.uk/product/downloads-page-rose-and-peter-working-draft

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

That’s the documentation I found, it says nought about software

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I realise that it says nothing about software, Duncan … I simply commented that it looked interesting.

Call it curiosity, or empathy, or whatever you like … I was just trying to get the topic going.

In principle the board is just a MIDI device, which would respond to any MIDI signal generator of your choosing.

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Michael’s link to the hobbytronics website is mildly interesting until at the end it includes another link to Sparkfun’s rather good technical description of what  MIDI is and how it works.

Briefly, MIDI is a serial protocol allowing messages to be sent from a digital device to a controller rather in the same way as CNC works with G-code. I think Sparkfun’s description is enough to allow an amateur to implement a MIDI controlled wotsit, not that I recommend that route except as a programming challenge or to do something special.

This table gives a flavour by listing MIDI status messages:

A basic tune can be played merely by sending sequences of “Note On” and “Note Off” messages, and these alone might be enough to work a Topsy with a basic controller that ignores everything it doesn’t need that arrives in the MIDI message stream.    Thus a MIDI file containing complex sounds would still play, but without and bells or whistles!   A quick read suggests playing two or more notes together, as in a chord, is done by setting channel numbers, so a DIY Topsy controller should probably support these too.   Commercial MIDI works in the same way – anything the controller doesn’t understand is ignored, so don’t expect inexpensive controllers to do everything.

I guess Duncan needs a MIDI keyboard program on his PC, or – even better – a MIDI keyboard.  This allows tunes to be played by the musician.    Duncan also needs a MIDI decoder, that translates MIDI messages into a bank of ON/OFF switches.   My first thought was DIY Arduino, but the MTP-7 device identified by Duncan looks good to me.  All the hard programming is done, the electronics built, and, unlike an Arduino, which has low-power outputs, the MTP-7 can switch 35V at up to 500mA.   A midi keyboard could be plugged straight into it, no need for a computer, though playing via a MIDI program on a PC would allow tunes to be recorded and edited.   Only 32 outputs though – is that enough? If not the MTP-8 has 64 and the MTP-9 128 outputs.

Dave

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

[…] Duncan also needs a MIDI decoder, that translates MIDI messages into a bank of ON/OFF switches.   My first thought was DIY Arduino, but the MTP-7 device identified by Duncan looks good to me.  […]

A black-box schematic of all the electronic hardware in Duncan’s existing Topsy would be a great help to those of us attempting to understand his problem.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ I suspect that there is nothing but the board, a power-supply, and a “MIDI in” connection

… simply because Duncan mentions having bought music files from Melvyn Wright

http://www.melright.com/busker/editor.htm

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Ref.  [from the site linked above]

http://melright.com/busker/editor/InstructionManual.pdf

 

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Hardly worth a schematic. The music file is stored on the computer. Some software spits it out down a USB wire. The converter converts the USB signal into outputs for the 30 odd air valves. What I need is a name for the software not just a generic ‘midi keyboard program’ which means nothing to me.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The world is full to overflowing with things that do that, Duncan

… I think you need to read-up on MIDI

MichaelG.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

That’s extremely unhelpful, I don’t want to become an expert on midi, I want to download something and use it

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

That’s extremely unhelpful, I don’t want to become an expert on midi, I want to download something and use it

Not intended as unhelpful, Duncan … I am just incapable of providing the answer that you appear to want. The available options are near infinite !!

It’s a bit like you asking us to recommend a spanner.

All you need is a program that can read a MIDI file and output it to your Topsy Organ … Many computers, and many mobile phones already have that facility.

Does the Topsy have a ‘proper’ MIDI connector, or does it [as I think you stated] use USB ?

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

To avoid the risk of any Copyright infringement … If anyone needs to download a small MIDI test file, go here:

https://gsarchive.net/html/midi.html

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I found reference to some files to usb programs being Ableton Live, FL Studio, or MIDI-OX (for Windows).j I don’t have a requirement so it is up to you to investigate and report back to us.

If anyone wants to make their own midi file from an MP3 try https://anyconv.com/mp3-to-midi-converter/  but note they have bunch of cookies to turn off first.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have no idea whether this will suit Duncan’s requirements … but it’s free, so that’s a good start:

https://www.organassist.com/wp/

The manual for it is available in the MENU along with lots more.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ This note is probably useful:

https://www.organassist.com/wp/download/installer-for-windows/

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

There was a company that produced small organs out by Wisbech or peterborough and the name in my head is PELL, I could be wrong ! Might help ? Noel

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Noel!

Correct!

Some years ago, we had a talk and demonstration from the company (Name and location escapes my elderly brain, but somewhere in Fenland)

Wonder of they have a website?

Howard

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Plenty of references to Alan Pell and Pell Organs but doesn’t appear to be a web site.

John

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is from a site that I linked earlier:

http://www.melright.com/busker/apell.htm

 

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Duncan having declined to provide a simple ‘black-box’ schematic of his Topsy Organ … I have been digging-around in the hope of actually being able to help.

Imagine my surprise when I found this:
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[the yellow highlight is mine]

This, if accurate, would appear to be a game-changer in the quest to find suitable software.

From this point on, I plan to be a silent observer of this discussion.

MichaelG.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

A little off-topic, but it’s New Year so I offer this as a treat:

MichaelG.

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https://pianoartisans.com/virtualroll/

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

as it’s Xmas (well just after), and to keep Michael happy. here’s a schematic. I don’t see that it adds anything to my words of 14:00 16 Dec, or indeed my original post. Michaels link of 17 Dec is, at least in my case, wrong, the midi data is stored on the hard drive. I contacted Mel Wright, who arranges music for these little organs, he had no suggestion on software but pointed out that the pipe tuning scale given by John Smith in the construction book bears little relation to the Alan Pell scales which Melvyn uses, which explains why I’ve had issues finding music that will play, so I’ve got to retune half the pipes. I dug out my electronic tuning whizzbang only to find that I’d left the batteries in and they have rotted and taken the battery connectors with them, so I’ve had to dismantle it and solder on some fly leads. Then we had the chaos of Xmas. I’ve tried the Topsy Organ Forum, but it seems to be having a melt down and won’t let me log in. I also tried J-omega, but they had no suggestions. In the meantime I think I’ve found the answer to my original question, but can’t check till I sort the tuning. I’ll report back when I’ve done it.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for that clarification, Duncan

Clearly ‘Topsy’ came in more than one variant.
[ years ahead of her time ]

Am I now correct in assuming that the hard-drive to which you refer is part of the computer AND that the system as drawn is used in real time [i.e. your version of Topsy is just a MIDI device ?]

If so … and if you had a Mac … I would highly recommend this:

MIDI Player X

https://www.methodred.net/mpx-quickstart/

 

… but I don’t know whether there is anything directly comparable in Windoze-Land

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ there’s this:

https://chrishills.org.uk/ChrisHills/midiplay/#:~:text=Using%20MidiPlay%20to%20listen%20to%20MIDI%20files%3A&text=Use%20Windows%20Explorer%20to%20open,it%20onto%20the%20MidiPlay%20window.

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