I’ve been looking at getting a traction engine.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Hi Henry,

"Would a smaller scale T.E model be better for someone looking to get into the M.E hobby" This a question that only you can answer. Are you interested in building the model or using it after you have built it.

Building a traction engine is a big project. I have been working on my 6" scale engine for 5 years. One more to go to finish it. A friend of mine built a 1.1/2: Alchin TE and it took 8 years. It depends how much spare time you put into the build. Lost track of the hours I have spent but somewhere between 1000-1500 hours. Also consider storage and transportation. My engine weighs 700kg, just small enough to legally tow behind my 4 cylinder car.

I am building a large model traction engine because I want to sit on it and drive it when finished, not stand by and watch it operate. (I also operate full size engines and one of these is too big to keep at my home, wife does not understand)  I also enjoy building things, so enjoy the manufacturing process with its challenges.

If you just want to get into ME to see if it is for you, mabe a smaller project would be better to start with. It is a big committment.

Good luck, Paul. 

Edited By Paul Lousick on 18/06/2018 08:50:04

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

Hi Paul
I would be interested in building it and operating it.

Thanks Henry

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Henry,

I would suggest that you go to a model engine club and look at different size engines. Most club members will normally give advise and possibly let you drive one of their engines.You are welcome to come to our club but I am in Sydney, Australia.

Paul

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

Well I’m in Christchurch New Zealand so that might be a bit hard for me.

Thanks Henry

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

Henry, Most of your questions only you can answer regarding your model choice, when I started building a traction engine I was advised to start with a 1" scale Minnie so bought the plans after looking at them I decided that was not what I wanted, so jumped in with both feet and built a 2" scale Durham and North Yorkshire traction engine which took me 3 years to build and had a lot of pleasure running that engine, then I built a 3" scale Marshall traction engine which took 8 years to build and enjoyed running that for some years.
So it comes down to this, your choice of model scale, availability of castings, your machine needs, time you want to put into model building, and cost, remember there is no such thing as a cheap hobby. (That's my opinion) By the way I already had a Lathe and Milling machine which I used mainly for making bits for Model Boats.

Mike.

[Bruce EdneyParticipant @bruceedney59949]

Hi Henry

As has been suggested above and in a previous similar thread started by yourself, you should go along to a local club and get to know some experienced model engineers. I am sure you will find plenty of helpful people at the Canterbury Society of Model Engineers

Bruce

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Henry, there is also Steam Scene at McLeans Island, there seems to be quite a bit of interest in steam in Christchurch.

Ian S C

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

There’s also the problem with Customs where you are limited to things under $400 if you go over this you haft to pay Customs and TAXS.

Thanks Henry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well you won't get much for under $400! If importing you would need to work out if it is cheaper to buy in several batches of under $400 which would have a higher postage cost or one big order for all the parts which would have a lower freight cost but attract tax. We have it the same here but have to start paying at about $70NZ.

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

The thing I don’t understand is how castings can cost 2-3K is it the type of metal used or cost of making the castings themselves.

Thanks Henry

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Henry Ruiter on 20/06/2018 08:23:56:
The thing I don't understand is how castings can cost 2-3K is it the type of metal used or cost of making the castings themselves.

Thanks Henry

It's not the fuel or material that makes cast parts expensive.

The problem is that foundry set-up costs are high; owning a furnace, buildings, and employing people to operate it are all expensive. On top of that the business has to pay tax, wages, admin, and for waste management etc etc etc.

Traditional foundry work is only profitable when the set-up costs can be shared. This is often done by making very large numbers of copies of a single item and selling it in volume. Each customer pays a tiny share of the set-up costs. This works very well for mass-produced stuff like man-hole covers and engine blocks. Unfortunately the savings can't be achieved on small quantity runs.

A modern foundry might be better placed to produce affordable castings in low volume; you would have to ask. My local specialises in making small numbers of specialised castings to meet architectural and low-run manufacturing requirements. Not asked myself, but a friend says they're absolutely not interested in low value orders. You might have better luck!

Firms who sell castings for models add further overheads. They get unit costs down by ordering in bulk, but then have to pay to keep them stored safely until a nice man in New Zealand puts in his order!

Dave

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

Would making a TE out of castings and self made parts be a bit cheaper than all castings.

Thanks Henry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Probably yes on the actual cost of the materials you would need vs. cost of castings particularly given shipping costs to NZ. But you are likely to have to spend out on additional tooling, learn more new skills and with little experience of fabricating parts it will no doubt take you a lot longer to build.

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

What would you recommen I do then.

Thanks Henry

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If your up to pattern making there are foundries around Christchurch, although I don;t think any of them handle iron, I think there is one inTimaru. The patterns are the expensive part of the casting. I have had castings (horse brasses) done in Chch, to home made patterns. Get out to Mcleans Island, there are scale traction engines around Chch, talk to some of the owners and see what they did.

Ian S C

.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Posted by Henry Ruiter on 15/07/2018 07:31:00:
What would you recommen I do then.

Thanks Henry

Even without castings, fabricating everything from bar and plate, a large scale traction engine is a big commitment in time and money. There is no short cut. The boiler and gears are a major expense and of course for safety you can not cut any corners with the boiler materials or construction.

If you want to save money, yet be involved in live steam models, you could look to 1" scale traction engines (if all fabricated, no castings, Minnie by Len Mason comes to mind) or small stationary engines. Plenty to choose from in the smaller sizes of traction engines and stationary engines to suit a lower budget. Still a big time commitment though for any detailed scale steam model.

Unless you are a physically small person you probably can not ride behind a 1" scale engine, much less fire it.

The above is just my $0.02 worth, your mileage may vary.

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

I wasn’t thinking cutting corner on the boiler because it wouldn’t be safe and I would feel right knowing it could end up hurting someone if woulded to make a boiler then I would do it proably to code.

Thanks Henry

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

What are the ajreeves 1″ Minnie traction like to build.

Thanks Henry

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Slightly simplified from a larger scale model but quite fiddly due to the small size. 2" version is also available less fiddly but more cost and larger machines needed.

Read whats involved in this pdf, just keep increasing the 4 digit number at the end to get the next issue

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

I’m use to things being fiddly I make 1/35 scale model tanks after all.

Thanks Henry

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Just as a matter of interest what size lathe is required to make a 2" scale engine and how much is the rough cost of materials of a simple engine like the Minnie ?

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

But did you scratch build the parts of the tank or just stick them together

Peter, they flywheel and final drive on a 2" are going to be around 9" in most cases so that is probably going to be your largest diameter if the wheel rims can be done buy rolling or using as "cast" rims, if not you are going to need 13" swing.

 

For the 2" Minnie very roughly

Castings £1750

Gear cutting if you can't do it £750

Copper, Bronze & Solder say £1000 add another £1500 to that if buying completed boiler

Sundry materials, fixings etc Say £500

Boiler fittings -3 cock water gauge, injector, few valves, clacks say £500

Tooling you don't have easily £500plus

4 years of weekends and evenings – Priceless

Edited By JasonB on 29/07/2018 10:35:25

[Henry RuiterParticipant @henryruiter35703]

Just glued the parts of that together because there are a kit set.

Thanks Henry

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