Issue 321, Cover picture raises questions.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have not even opened the poly wrapper off my copy of MEW which has just arrived through the letterbox but I feel I must comment on the front cover.

Combined with the 'new series for beginners' text the central image shows a endmill held in a drill chuck, something we are frequently reminded not to do. Its one thing gripping say a small diameter endmill in a geared drill chuck but the chuck in the picture appears to be a keyless type which (in my experience) the jaws of which seem to have a shorter gripping surface than say a Jacobs type.

Its not clear from the picture what is being milled and in which direction but the setup overall looks a bit dodgy.

I do however like the very fine pitch thread on the toolmakers clamp! hard to judge the size but it does not look like the usual Eclipse/M&W offering.

Ian P

P.S. Cover image quality (rather than the image content) is really good.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

What you should and should not do is a matter for conjecture. Many people use an endmill in a drill chuck to flat bottom a bore. I for one when I was a kid used endmills in a drill press to modify many toys etc as I was not allowed to use the mill. I always made sure my father was not around though. I never had one come loose. I watched a video today of a machinist in the far east using a large lathe as a milling machine. He used an endmill in a Jacobs chuck to mill out a slot in some material. That went ok. Myford, Boxford and many other companies supplied milling attachments for their lathes. They probably knew full well that the chuck would be used with an endmill. I can understand your concern but maybe a read of the article would have shed some light on the situation.

regards

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

My point was that its not a good example to show a beginner.

I too have frequently held endmils (and other inappropriate cutters) in a drill chuck but I dont think I have ever applied a side load. The keyless chucks I have (Albrecht & Rohm) all grip tighter with increasing torque between the cutter (drill) and the chuck. As I said its not obvious from the picture what the actual machining operation was but it does appear to be cutting laterally.

I will remove the magazine from its wrapper shortly, maybe it will all then become clear.

Ian P

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Older M and W toolmakers clamps have a much finer thread pitch than later (and, I think, all Eclipse) clamps. The finer thread makes them slower to adjust but gives a much tighter grip.

Rod

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Luxury!! I'm still waiting for 318.

cheers I think

Bill

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

Issue 321.

The artical on Drummond M Type tailstock Morse taper 2 mod is so much better than I expected. He has got the balance of pictures and writing so good it gives a true story of what is involved in this project. If anyone wants a copy of the drawings or more info, just drop me a message. Thanks Neil for how you formated the artical.

David

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Wonder if the new owners of the mag. will be prepared, for anyone following this example, to pay compensation in the event of an injury to any of its customers by following this example? An explanation in the text doesn't hold water cos let's face it, in many cases, 'If all else fails, RTFM'. In recent history, the same mag was criticized for showing the conversion of a battery powered drill from an internal battery to an external power pack, connection between the two by means of a 13A plug and socket. '240V into 18V causes a rapid release of the magic smoke if plugged into the wrong socket'.

I left an American forum years ago for exactly the same reason of an "Experienced" poster showing exactly the same thing in one of his posts. His excuse being "I've done this for thirty years" and yes, I've got one or two scars after fifty years in industry AND home shop stupidity but if one or two harsh comments stops a 'newbie' having to attend A&E – – – –

Regards Ian.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I expect there is a get out clause somewhere more legally binding than this. I'll wait until I have seen the digital mag.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

the ‘misuse’ of mains plugs goes much further back – one of my first repair jobs as a teenager(just! – it being over 60yrs ago) was to fix a school loudspeaker that my schoolmaster father brought home – the school used a single wireless to transmit the schools music programs to the classrooms in his infants school – the school being old had also wired in the mains to each classroom – both systems used the small round pin 5A plug and socket – with the inevitable results.

Edited By Frances IoM on 18/10/2022 12:03:34

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Have to plead guilty to misusing tools, but never advise a newcomer to do such things.

If you know what you are doing, or think so (Sometimes you find that you don't! ) you may be able to take a liberty and survive.

But, although we think that we know what we are doing; not everyone else does

"Experience is what allows you to recognise the mistake, the next time that you make it"

Howard

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I've clicked the magazines link on the bar above, and tried via pocketmags, and the latest I can find is issue 320. Is something amiss?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

digital not out yet.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Whilst I see your point in principle if you had opened the magazine and looked at the article the end mill was being used to take tiny cuts on a brass bracket the cutting area being very much less than half the diameter of the milling cutter. In addition the cutter size is small compared to the drill chuck and the operator obviously had no problems making the cut. As to the holding power of keyless chucks if a chuck of that size can handle the cutting forces of a 10mm drill used in anger I feel it should be up to this light duty. Admittedly brass is less than forgiving as regards to grabbing cutting tools however in this instance use of the drill chuck seems justifiable. All that said it would be interesting to know why that chuck was chosen over a clarkson or an er chuck, the article doesn’t say, maybe it gave a little more daylight to the set up being less bulky.

regards Martin

As an aside the only injury would be to the workpiece rather than the operator if the cutter was drawn out of the chuck.

Edited By Martin Kyte on 18/10/2022 21:09:04

Edited By Martin Kyte on 18/10/2022 21:10:10

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

From my (limited) experience of doing this, the problem is not the cutter working its way out of the chuck, but the taper (JT, or similar) letting go so that chuck and cutter fall onto the workpiece or machine table. Not good, but unless it falls on your foot I can't see it being hugely dangerous, and pretty unlikely to happen if used for very light cuts only.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes it's a shame that the photo is next to all the "boring" safety advice and also a similar setup used elsewhere when a collet chuck was available.

Stick out of cutter was also a bit more than I like to use but that may well be due to the limited depth that could have been got into the keyless chuck.

Don't know about others but drill arbors used on my mill have drawbars so taper releasing would not be an issue.

PS Digital now available

 

PPS Not sure the advice to wear cotton gloves is ideal either

Edited By JasonB on 19/10/2022 07:01:21

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Still waiting for it to appear in my local Smiths. They never seem to have many copies now. Perhaps they have all gone inbetween my visits. It won't be the first time that they have had fewer than the demand for them.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

It's hard to see how the operator would be hurt unless the cutter broke.

The work piece is however another matter, this sort of dodge is best left to something which will be hidden so if it does take an extra big chunk out it will be hidden. That said if the item is not held securely as well the item may be wrecked.

The habit of new mills being supplied only with drill chucks does tend to make it look OK.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JasonB on 19/10/2022 06:58:35:

…

PPS Not sure the advice to wear cotton gloves is ideal either

The cotton gloves advice is flawed. Apart from the danger of fingers being pulled into a spinning chuck by the cloth, cotton gloves aren't swarf proof! Too easy to pick up an annoying cut.

But it makes a point about Health and Safety. It's necessary to think about safety, not just to blindly follow or reject rules.

Faced with safety advice that seems daft, I always think about how it got in the book because it may cover a situation outside my experience or imagination. The usual reason for a rule is some clot had an accident. Conversely, if safety advice seems unwise, it could be a mistake!

Reminds me of the famous misprint when the 7th Commandment went out as 'Thou shalt commit adultery'. Trust me, even though it was in the Bible, do a risk assessment before committing adultery. Although good fun at the time, it may end in chaos!

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by JasonB on 19/10/2022 06:58:35:

Yes it's a shame that the photo is next to all the "boring" safety advice and also a similar setup used elsewhere when a collet chuck was available.

Stick out of cutter was also a bit more than I like to use but that may well be due to the limited depth that could have been got into the keyless chuck.

Don't know about others but drill arbors used on my mill have drawbars so taper releasing would not be an issue.

PS Digital now available

PPS Not sure the advice to wear cotton gloves is ideal either

Edited By JasonB on 19/10/2022 07:01:21

If the chuck is on a Jacobs taper most are) then drawbar won't help.

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