Is this hobby dying?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by John Haine on 06/09/2010 20:39:08:
Does it matter?

 Only in as much as do these people read our two mags.

Just as ‘we’ don’t read classic plant and JCB do the classic bike guys even know there is a mag called MEW.

 

Question for David, does MEW actively advertise in other mags ?

 

John S.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi John

We did a subscription swap with some of the classic car and a tractor magazine last Christmas.

regards David

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I think you need to address the bike guys, these people aren’t adverse to getting their hand mucky and stuck in.

The car guys are too worried about muck under the finger nails………….

 

John S.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

For those who didn’t pick up on what Ian said above about the aftershocks, he is located in Darfield Canterbury which was the epicentre of a force 7.1 earthquake early on Saturday. Aftershocks are still continuing. No known fatalities so far, a couple of guys hurt, one by falling masonry and the other by glass. The city of Christchurch (New Zealand, not the UK one) has been quite badly affected, estimates are of up to 2 billion or so in damage.

 

regards

John

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The one at that moment was 5.4, we’v had over 100 after shocks now, and this will go on for months, so just got to get on with it.Theres an artical in the local paper about the local high school engineering students and the grass cart ( like a go-cart), they did the welding and machining, and scrouging parts such as wheels, bearings etc., don’t know about the engine, its 6.5hp, proberbly a Honda clone from China. At least they are getting some engineering training.  Ian S C

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

Well, yes I think it matters! Model Engineering is a specific subject (allmost), its not about full size prototypes. Exept clocks. This hobby does alot of good to preserve industrial history, its important that new genrerations take over in the future. As I started by saying, young ppl  dont learn much in schools these days, and I fear few even have the insight to be able to catch interest in, say, an old mill engine or tram.

 

And notice this thread is posted in ME section!

 

I wish all In ChCh NZ best of luck, its a miracle you have internet conection, you should send the ISP flowers later!

 

Funny enoough my first name is John also, but use my second for practical reasons,, lots of John´s on this thread…

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Axel, we indeed are lucky, only one serious casualty in intensive care after a brick chimney fell on him, another with serious cuts from glass I think is still in hospital. A number of people with broken bones, cuts and bruises. No deaths. Most of the area was without power, but land line and cell phone stayed on, my land line went down until I remembered to change the walk about phone, ha ha. A lot of people lost water and sewerage in Christchurch its self. You should be able to see a good bit if you go to Google and put in something like “eartquake canterbury new zealand”. I was out in the workshop about 8am, just to see that the lathe and mill were where I had left them, they were, and there was’nt much more junk on the floor than usual. wo of my engines fell over without damage.Ian S C

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Ian.

Hello Axel.

 

For Ian:

I’m happy You hadn’t suffered anu injury and I wish all In ChCh NZ best of luck.

 

For Axel:

My first name is, also, John. In my mother tongue it is written  João.

 

 

 

 Dias Costa

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

When I was a wee chap,5/6yrs old, the local grocer used to call me Scotch John, I was only called Ian because there were too many Johns in the family. Ian S C

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Some of us do some work on the full size “prototypes”, in my case 116tons of Diesel Electric.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Ian:

Glad to hear you and your fellow Kiwis got off light. Is it you building codes are up to scratch, or was it a deep quake?

 

Axel:

I don’t know if its true but apparently my paternal lineage is ‘John’ back about seven generations – that’s why I’m called Neil. Hoping to get a family tree back to 1585 in the post soon.

 

Neil

[StirlingSingleParticipant @stirlingsingle]

 

 

At the senior age of 36 I am building a Simplex. It is in no way as good as anything in model engineer, however it is my work and as time goes on I get a bit better. For me all aspects of engineering are of interest and I have to agree that the lathe is very useful when keeping an old bike on the road.

 

Anyway I think with enough enthusiasm and just a little skill most things can be achieved, however in my case never to the standard shown in the excellent Model Engineer!

 

Just have a go and see what happens even if the model does not work think of all the skills gained alog the way!

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Hi Neil, the’quake was fairly shallow at 33km about 5/15 km from here/ 30km from Chch, yes our design for eathquake proof buildings has helped. Our houses are mainly timber framed(some steel), and if bricks are used they are just a veneer. In older buildings double& tripple brick was usedas the main structure, this is not alowed now, but this is why a lot of buildings in the CBD of Chch have collapsed. NZ tends to be a world leader in earthquake design.Ian S C

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

There was some discussion of Simplex at our club last night….a youngish guy has bought an incomplete one. One piece of advice was to make the front section of running board over the valve chest removable, since otherwise you can’t get at the valves without removign the entire runnig board, which means removing the cab. There is also a case for modifying the rear axleboxes to allow room for a drop grate to drop down, otherwise it is hard to remove the fire/ash/clinker

 

Stub mandrel, It was partly a matter of luck with the timing, since most people were at home in bed, and most NZ houses are wood and will stand an earthquake quite well. But the codes are generally good, and are generally complied with, although I suspect that one of the pictures I saw was a house on a concrete pad with the reinforcing left out. Generally the older buildings have fared worst, especially cavity brick and stone buildings. It was a fairly shallow quake, and the fault trace is visible on the surface for 25km or so. Up to about 4 and a half meters horizontal, and over a meter vertical in places. An unknown fault under sediments that have not been disturbed in 16000 years.

 

Back to our usual programme…Axel it is not only clocks that are built full size in Model Engineering, we usually consider building add ons for our machine tools as part of the  hobby. The engine for my steam launch was described in Model Engineer in 1983, that has three inch and five inch bores and 3 inch stroke. Is that Model Engineering? It was described in a series in ME, and was mostly machined on a Myford. Actually the late LBSC detested the term “model” as applied to miniature locomotives. He thought it suggested too much association with toys.

 

I’m not sure why Model Engineering is not  all that common in Sweden, you tend to have bigger houses than some Europeans and do have a good engineering tradition. You also have long winters when a nice indoor hobby should be attractive, provided of course the workshop is properly insulated and heated. Also most Swedes have pretty good English, which would help with reading source material from both the UK and the USA.  I did meet one of the Swedish Model Engineers when I was up there a bit over ten years back. I had a fortnight in Goteborg just before  Christmas1998, so not a good time to try to get to the one and only track, but he was able to show me pictures. Sweden being the size it is people could find they had a fair drive to get to a club.

 

regards

John

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

It´s the lack of clubs I describe in the first post, I do think there are plenty of folk with a workshop, but I belive they tend to work on full size things like motorbikes and cars, tractors, and firearms.

 

Yes, there are exeptions to working in miniature, as pointed out by all of us, but they tend to be within unseen borders. Anything steam goes, so does a homebuilt moped engine kit, as Myford use to sell in the 50´s, and serialized in ME. Still I dare say there is a core in Model Engineering that is about “miniature”, as indicated by the name of a competior to this magazine!

 

In the USA, and Australia/NZ, I belive they use the term Homeshop Machinist, but there, as in Sweden and other nordinc countries, we dont tend to work on miniatures as much, thats my impression!? UK rocks in this case!

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

I want to take back the part about Myford moped engines, I was from memory, but I read now in another thread, and it seems it was not at all a kit. Still I belive a kit built motor for a moped would fit.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Axel, the motor your thinking of is “Busy Bee” by E.T. westbury the series starts in 1950, not sure, but I think castings are still available. A nephew of mine has put a 49cc Chinese  2 stroke on one of his bikes, a group in Christchurch organises rallies every so often, and they go of around the countyr side in mass, 40/50 or so. There was a twin cyl vesion in ME in resent yrs. Ian S C

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

Thank you Ian!

 

http://www.myhobbystore.co.uk/product/17485/busy-bee-pe23

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

http://buyvintage1.wordpress.com/page-41-1958-busy-bee/

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Is the hobby dying? I think this will depend on two main factors.

 

The first is that as people become older, and realise that “for the want of a nail, the shoe was lost” – but unfortunately they can no longer obtain the nail, unless they make it themselves! In other words, as people come to reject the idea of throwing away perfectly good “stuff” because the spares are not available, so they will turn to repairing it themselves. A good example from some years ago when a small bracket on a manual lawnmower broke. It’s owner was unable to take it for repair, incapable of doing it herself, and in all probability not have a clue as to trying to obtain a spare part from the manufacturer. I made a new bracket out of a piece of m.s. angle.

 

The second reason is that of interference by officialdom saying that you cannot do “that there here” syndrome etc. I remember reading many years ago in ME, someone, possibly in a letter, saying that there was a move afoot to ban the use of powered equipment by householders on the grounds of safety. Fortunately it never came to pass, but if ever it did, where would that leave us? Then there are the H&S people who, at the moment have no jurisdiction over what we do as amateurs in our own premises (this does not mean that I condone unsafe working practices), but what if H&S do get a foot into our workshops? Plus, of course, the council planners who can insist that you stop doing whatever it is you are doing if they get to know about it – see the story of Jesse Moody in ME around 1994.

 

I became involved in this hobby many years ago when one particular 00 gauge locomotive kept derailing and I decided that it needed new wheels with a larger tread and deeper flange and so started a chain of events which resulted in the present workshop. And now, I am primarily interested in learning how to use the tools, and to make other tools and adaptors for the equipment.

 

People have mentioned that in general it is the older settled people who can afford the hobby. To an extent this is true, but I would point out that a lot of the major costs are for equipment and are usually few and far between and may only be a one-off. Let’s face it how many people buy a new lathe every three or so years, whereas there are some people who think nothing of replacing their car that often. So really, although the cost of a lathe can be expensive, an expensive lathe is likely to be a once in a lifetime event and hence the cost per year, say, does become quite low. 

 

I am very fortunate in that my eldest grandson has shown himself to be gifted – even his school has said so. Right from an early age he has shown a remarkable practical ability – I mean, how many 5/6/7 year olds would you trust to insert wall plugs with a hammer, and ok, I had to stop him before he knocked it through to next door, but even at that tender age he was showing his ability. He’s now 15, and a few years ago I gave him free run of the workshop only asking that he didn’t hurt himself – I even said that I wasn’t bothered if he broke something – at least he was learning. So now he has done turning, milling, hand screwing, heat treatment of silver steel etc. He is doing engineering at school for GSCE – it’s just a pity that he want’s to be a vet! It’s my hope that this hobby will remain alive and kicking so that children such as my grandson can continue on in the tradition.

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw 

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

I think Peter makes a very good point

 

I want to transplant the front end (forks and yokes) and swingarm from two other different bikes onto mine. This will require spacers making and existing parts machining to fit. I could take everything plus designs for the new bits to a local engineering firm and pay but it will total hundreds of £’s and several re-visits to fine tune the fit.

 

So I thought I would buy a lathe and make the bits myself plus learn new skills into the process. The lathe cost me £350 plus the 350 mile round trip down to Hereford and back to collect in my estate. I then went a bit mad buying stuff that I probably didn’t need as a newbie or that didn’t fit an old British lathe but, hey ho, I live and learn from my mistakes. At least now I am able to make them fit e.g. Myford vertical slide. Then, after further reading and contemplation of the project in hand, I decided I would need a mill. One came up on eBay within 6 miles so I bid £375 and won and that’s where I am today.

 

At the moment I am making some extra tooling (tap and die holders as I have found that I can’t do these straight and true by freehand) which is teaching me basic lathe and milling skills. The main lesson I have learned is that when the rubbing noise starts, take the tool out and sharpen it !

 

All in all I have probably spent in the region of £1200 thus far on two second hand but sizeable machines plus tooling. This probably exceeds what I would have spent down at the local engineering firm but they are there for whatever future jobs turn up (restoration of a “free” 1982 Yamaha motorcycle I have been given is the next project), plus a work colleague wants me to make some spacers to get some crash protectors to fit on a different motorbike, and I am having a ball learning about lathe work and milling and making mistakes along the way.

 

I’ve bought quite a few of the Workshop Practice series and am looking forward to making some of the tools and tooling in there as well

 

All I am short of is time, being in full time work with a young family (1, 5 and 19). That’s where I envy all you retired folks as this gets further away for me every time the Govt ups the retirement age!

 

John

 

[StovepipeParticipant @stovepipe]

The corpse is taking “a long time a-dying”.. The hobby will change, but the creative element  will, in my view, not change. As Mark Twain is famously reported as saying, “reports of my death are greatly exaggerated”. I don’t think we need to mourn just yet.

 

I hope Peter’s grandson is encouraged, if only for using his obvious abilities as a hobby.

 

I would suggest that the greatest threat to H&S commissars is from the owner of the workshop – a smack in the kisser with a 4ft length of 2″ m/s bar would greatly discourage them.

 

Dennis

 

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

  Drown the expletive deleted in the coolant tank.

 

Two fold advantage [a] gets rid of the Elf and Pastry erk and  [b]  keep the bacteria down in the coolant tank because nothing will grow on an Elf and Pastry erk.

 

Remember you may need that 4ft length of 2″ bar later and plod will probably still have it as evidence.

 

If you need to take a thwack at them, use an iron bar, that’s the tool of choice. If you read the daily’s it always says ” Crooks attacked XXX with iron bar ” 

Where do the crooks, who we are led to believe are of sub normal intelligence, get these large quantities of iron bars from ?

 

When I want iron bars I have to pay thru the nose for them.

 

John S.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 08/09/2010 15:32:12

[Anonymous]

Well, that’s easy. The crooks swapped their lead coshes (made from stuff liberated from the church roof) for iron bars. We all know lead is bad for your health, particularly in a small, high speed form. Whereas iron is of vital importance within the body to enable the blood to transport oxygen.

 

So by bashing ’em with an iron bar their ‘ealth is being improved.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Axel BentellParticipant @axelbentell]

Congratulation on having a talented grandson! Its noting wrong with wanting to be a vet, but if u tell him why the vet carry rubber gloves that go up the the armpit, with them when they visit a cow farm he´ll might be persuaded to change his mind!

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