Is software a tool ?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 12/01/2014 10:28:04:

Thank you, I'll give it a little more thought.

Incidentally although what I was thinking of has a use in CNC it's not predominantly CNC related as a lot of the outcome from the program can be used on manual machines.

.

John,

If I am right in guessing that you are thinking of Gearotic, then I would be very interested in reading an article. … Especially if you could concentrate upon its abilities with traditional gears and clock-wheels, rather than the decorative exotica that features highly in the advertising.

MichaelG.

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Edit: corrected hinking to thinking, and whels to wheels

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/01/2014 18:57:34

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/01/2014 19:01:32

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Exactly the sort of thing I have been talking about.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

I'm inclined to think there are only five or so CAD programs that are within practical reach of the hobbyist because of their price and so this ignores the free stuff that's available, much of which is good, but having said that, I've never come across a free 3D CAD that seriously challenges the ones I mention next.

Versions of Alibre, ViaCAD, TurboCAD, MoI and one or two others, can be had at reasonable rates for us to enjoy and whilst some are easier to use than others, they will get the job done and usually in quite similar ways.

Many CAD functions are similar to what we do in engineering and that's why there are tools to extrude, lathe, bevel and cut etc.

3D CAD can become easier to use when the penny finally drops and it's understood that by joining several a few shapes such as spheres and cubes and then slicing bits off them with straight or curved lines we are copying what we do in the workshop with our lathes, mills and welders. It can get more complicated, but a surprising amount of work can be done with these simple steps.

Anyone wanting to get a good understanding of 3D CAD should have a good long read of the MoI website forum. The developer, Michael Gibson (who incidentally wrote Rhino), goes to great lengths to explain how and why tools should be used in a particular way. I learned that all the 'solid' surfaces are derived from what are basically rectangular shapes that are pushed and stretched (mathematically) into more complex shapes – including spheres and made me more aware of what shapes were practical to make by certain methods.

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Good point Martin,

As you say quite a few affordable ones.

Has anyone tried the free one distributed by RS ? I gather it's a cut down version of Space Claim which is a very expensive 3D package

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

I think software is a tool, and I feel I do not know enough about it. From my perspective at my age and with a fully equipped workshop, I think I would be unlikely to change my equipment and learn CAM, there is a steep learning curve for me, as I never used this in my working life. I would prefer to be cutting metal than spending the time I know would be needed to move up the curve. That said, I am still interested in what can be done and how it is done in general terms. I do use CAD though, and used Dos based Generic Cad for quite a while, (anyone remember that?), and then Virtual Cad, and dabbled with AutoCAD. Now I am dabbling with TotalCad. A good general piece on the pros and cons of the various CAD offerings would be useful. I use Office and Excel, but what other software is worth considering?. I also read posts where various different operating systems are mentioned in passing like Linux and Ubuntu (?). I would welcome a piece giving the pros and cons and experiences of these systems as well. It is obvious the knowledge is there amongst our ranks, and some basic information and how this is applied would be of interest to me, as being retired now, I am not exposed to all this information as part of my working life. I know the information is out there to be found, but there is too much general stuff, and I would sooner learn from someone in our hobby who has similar interests and experience.

Chris Gunn

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

John,

Sounds feasible – an aero modelling friend always said 'anything will fly with enough power'

Tony

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

John,

Sounds feasible – an aero modelling friend always said 'anything will fly with enough power'

Tony

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Hi

While I intend to maintain and develop my conventional/manual skills I have become very much interested in the boarder spectrum of model engineering using computer hardware and software in the workshop and would agree these are indeed very useful tools.

I quickly loose interest in in-depth articles on cnc and cad packages etc. however, reviews of available hardware and software etc are of interest. Such articles provide an awareness of what's available, how it can be applied and where to look for more comprehensive information. More importantly, lets see how such tools have been applied and what's been made.

I have recently become curious about Raspberry Pi and Arduino and wonder if such hardware has been put to good use in the workshop, I would certainly like to see occasional articles that include various types of hardware and software applied to model engineering and workshop activity, though I emphasis "occasional".

Maybe 10% of my workshop activity is cad/cnc related, I do use Gearotic, Vectric 2D, Meshcam, Draftsight, Alibre and Mach 3 though not enough to be proficient.

Nigel

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Coming at the question from another direction – building software is certainly an engineering task, often a very complex one. Similar mindset needed as for mechanical engineering. The two disciplines come together with topics like robotics. Anyone who has mechanical engineering skills and wants to get into programming could do worse than buying a Lego Mindstorms set.

Andy

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Pi and audrino in workshop. ..these form the brains of most 3d printers…with open source sw and firmware you get a controls system adaptable to 3 axis plus two with two channels of full pid heater control . A gcode interper /editor …
Any way back to the question. ..is software a tool…pretty much the same question
is matter ( iron copper ceramic wood plastic…etc) a tool…well a rock is a rock until a hominid picks it up and beats some thing with it. .cue thus spracke zarthusa …. ( ok that was a bone but you get the point)

Edited By jason udall on 13/01/2014 09:41:05

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by John Stevenson on 12/01/2014 19:36:08:Has anyone tried the free one distributed by RS ? I gather it's a cut down version of Space Claim which is a very expensive 3D package

Yes, I've had a quick play with it and worked through a couple of their tutorials. I don't know if it's just me missing things but I find that some of the most useful features in Solidworks (I'm using a version of Solidworks that is about 12 years old) are missing. The problem is that every package has a different user interface and so it would take a great deal of learing to do a proper comparison.

One of the most useful features of Solidworks (for me) is the tree showing all of the operations that have been used to create the part. You can use this to roll back and make changes such as changing a sketch that has been used to make an extrusion etc.

Designspark Mechanical (Spaceclaim) does however offer much better value for money!

Russell.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 13/01/2014 09:46:01:

One of the most useful features of Solidworks (for me) is the tree showing all of the operations that have been used to create the part. You can use this to roll back and make changes such as changing a sketch that has been used to make an extrusion etc.

Russell – Spaceclain (on which DesignSaprk Mechainical is based) is one of the newer 'history free' CAD systems. It is a completely different approach to modelling.

Reckoned to be superior for some types of job, and touted as being easier for the beginner to pick up (I'm not necessarily convinced about that).

History based systems are now tending to add some 'direct modelling' capability of one sort or another as a response to this challenge.

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 13/01/2014 09:46:01:

One of the most useful features of Solidworks (for me) is the tree showing all of the operations that have been used to create the part. You can use this to roll back and make changes such as changing a sketch that has been used to make an extrusion etc.

Russell.

Russell,

I have used Inventor and Alibre which have the design tree as you describe for solid works, editing is easy and convenient. For me convenient editing is a key requirement for any 3d cad package.

I have briefly tried Viacad, Design Spark Mechanical and some others but find the absence of the design tree a huge disadvantage making editing difficult to do and learn. In this respect I think the learning curve for these will be much greater when used for more complex design.

It's disappointing that non of the cheaper and free packages include the design tree. Normally I will do quite allot of editing as the design progresses so for me Alibre is much easier, quicker and less frustrating to learn, worth the extra cost. Inventor or Solid works would be nice but much to expensive for my use.

Nigel

[GoCreateParticipant @gocreate]

Posted by David Jupp on 13/01/2014 11:14:41:

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 13/01/2014 09:46:01:

One of the most useful features of Solidworks (for me) is the tree showing all of the operations that have been used to create the part. You can use this to roll back and make changes such as changing a sketch that has been used to make an extrusion etc.

Reckoned to be superior for some types of job, and touted as being easier for the beginner to pick up (I'm not necessarily convinced about that).

History based systems are now tending to add some 'direct modelling' capability of one sort or another as a response to this challenge.

Hi David

I found it easy enough to learn how to create a part using the cheaper and free cad packages but came unstuck when wanting to edit. I hope the design tree feature in alibre and the like does not eventually disappear, I would like to see it retained at least in a configuration option if nothing else.

Nigel

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Nigel.

ViaCAD does have history – it's in the Concept Explorer, so when a part is highlighted it becomes editable and allows for the suppression of features as well as their modification. I don't know how it would compare to Alibre, but it is there. Also, if a solid is for instance extruded from lines & curves, then any change to the lines & curves will update the solid.

Martin.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

No intention to get rid of the Design Tree in Alibre/Geomagic as far as I'm aware.

There is a wider 'war' (or should that be debate) in the CAD industry between 'history based' and 'direct modelling' approaches.

Both approaches have their strengths.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by John McNamara on 12/01/2014 13:58:52:

Hi All
Is software a tool?
A bit of preamble

I remember when I first heard the some of the acronyms and shorthand terms used to describe how a computer works, "Software" often combined in the same sentence with the word "hardware". Hmmm what are they on? Then as if to really mess up my thinking there was system software, assembly language, and strange dialects like Algol, Basic, Pascal or Fortran. among dozens of others. apparently all happy to reside with the operating system software. Grrrr Bah humbug….. And what is a driver? Anyhow it took me ages to work out. This was around 1978. I guess today many would understand the above at least in principal.

Regards
john

Edited By John McNamara on 12/01/2014 14:09:42

You are forgetting Hardware Abstraction Layer <wink>

not that I know anything about these things.

graham.

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