Is Model Engineering in Decline

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mick B1 on 17/08/2018 10:12:04:

The problem with the huge multiplicity of TV channels is that it undermines the commonality of entertainment, experience and culture that prevailed when there were only 3 or 4. People don't have the same stuff to talk about the next day.

The coherence of society is destroyed, and civilisation degrades to bloody chaos.

It is the duty of Model Engineers to keep alive the knowledge of how to make the basic machinery that pumps water, makes and transports bricks etc., else we're all doomed.

So there. Tell me if I'm wrong.

There's a lot in that, except television and radio first destroyed social networks based on pubs, hops, book clubs, variety theatre, and church-going.

The real problem is that Mick, I and most other forum members are men of our time. What was important and mainstream in my youth isn't, it's been displaced by something else. Not much call for coal miners or COBOL programmers in the UK today.

I'm in blissful ignorance of the extent to which people use Social Media on the internet. All the youngsters under 50 in my family know exactly what's going on because they're all online. It's life Jim but not as we know it.

My perception is the hobby is bigger than ever before in terms of numbers engaged and money spent. True some aspects of the hobby are in decline; making model boats was once very popular, now many prefer just to sail them. There was a period when modelling Traction Engines pushed everything else aside. Making steam locomotives might be fading relatively as an interest, but they're so impressive I doubt they'll ever disappear.

I think there's been a shift in 'Model Engineering' towards people like me. I'm not particularly interested in modelling as such. Rather I enjoy making things, learning how to use tools and materials, and experimenting. Metalworking is part of a range of other technical interests. So rather than building locos to rivet counting exhibition standard, you find people making parts for telescopes, photography, microscopes, clocks, old cars, motor bikes, quad-copters, Arduinos, amateur radio, seismographs, and 3D-printing etc.

Change is a fact of life.

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by pgk pgk on 17/08/2018 11:19:59:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/08/2018 10:58:31:

…

If salesman wishes to make value judgements based on appearance then he gets a surprise.

…

pgk

That's very true.

Members who don't have the good fortune to live in the UK might be interested to know that our super-rich and aristocracy usually dress-down unless it's a special occasion. It's not considered good form to display wealth in ordinary discourse. It's the sign of a counter jumper sailing under false colours. In contrast, Americans are proud of their riches and arrive covered in bling, not realising this is nouveau riche and crass. Almost as ill-judged as farting in church.

Brits are more subtle to the extent that chap dressed as a tramp could either be a rough sleeper or the Duke of Westminster. I hope to be mistaken for him one day…

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Around here it's not unheard of for a mud-spattered sugar cane farmer dressed in football shorts, blue singlet and flip-flops to pull out his cheque book and fork over $600,000 on the spot for a new cane harvester. I guess that's the closest we get to aristocracy.

Anyone wearing a tie is treated with utmost suspicion.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/08/2018 12:05:16:…

Brits are more subtle to the extent that chap dressed as a tramp could either be a rough sleeper or the Duke of Westminster. I hope to be mistaken for him one day…

Dave

Sadly, Dave, the current duke of Westminster was born in 1991. I'll take a leap of assumption here and suggest that if either you or I wished to be mistaken for him then it would require radical plastic surgery and a miracle of gym work… or a cloned body.

(I've been doing a lot of gym work this last year and all it achieved was larger droopy pectorals)

pgk

[RevStewParticipant @revstew]

Getting buried with your Myford simply isn't cricket. I must be sold to me for what you told the wife you bought it for!

I was always told as a youth, to treat people equally, and with respect, but some really do test the bounds of this equality, and as for respect, I reserve the right to give that to those who deserve it. If you've ever read Porterhouse Blue by Tom Sharpe, the character Scullion echoes my sentiments on 'gentlemen.' It's not what you are, it's whether you know what you ought to be! (or something like that).

As for decline, I think our esteemed editor is correct, it's just done in different ways. Like I've said, a lot of 'makers' simply don't realise that what they're doing is model engineering. Good thing is, they are making. Maybe model engineering, like Freddie Mercury said of Radio, is 'Yet to have it's finest hour'!!

[RevStewParticipant @revstew]

Some of the wealthiest people I know are dreadfully dishevelled. Sole flapping off a shoe, faded red trousers worn thin at the knee, a knackered Barbour, and some creaking Daihatsu Fourtrack (not a Land Rover, never a Land Rover).

Usually live in one room (the kitchen) of a rambling pile, rumbling Rayburn (never an AGA), and a podgy wheezing old Lab or two.

You can lose 'rich' in an evening, but you can never spend 'wealthy'. That's why they relax about it.

Edited By RevStew on 17/08/2018 13:21:55

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by pgk pgk on 17/08/2018 12:34:16:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 17/08/2018 12:05:16:…

Brits are more subtle to the extent that chap dressed as a tramp could either be a rough sleeper or the Duke of Westminster. I hope to be mistaken for him one day…

Dave

Sadly, Dave, the current duke of Westminster was born in 1991. I'll take a leap of assumption here and suggest that if either you or I wished to be mistaken for him then it would require radical plastic surgery and a miracle of gym work… or a cloned body.

…

pgk

It gets worse, looking him up, I find I was thinking of the 5th Duke who died in 1979. No one tells me anything!

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

The discussion about the hobby being in decline is one that has been asked on many forums of different hobbies. Where are the figures to show this or is it from personal experience. Looking around forums sometimes there are a limited amount of people participating but because of that it does not mean that a hobby is in decline. Time of year is another factor

How many people belong to clubs, forums or visit shows and also how many rather go into their garage/shed and just make something for their own enjoyment without joining any form of activity and do so for their own pleasure.

Visiting many of the rally fields there always seem a good number of steam powered vehicles(trains being one that is less so due to track availability unless it is a club)

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It is the duty of Model Engineers to keep alive the knowledge of how to make the basic machinery that pumps water, makes and transports bricks etc., else we're all doomed.

We're the guys who are prepared for the zombie apocalypse when it arrives

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by RevStew on 17/08/2018 13:21:31:

Some of the wealthiest people I know are dreadfully dishevelled. Sole flapping off a shoe, faded red trousers worn thin at the knee, a knackered Barbour, and some creaking Daihatsu Fourtrack (not a Land Rover, never a Land Rover).

Usually live in one room (the kitchen) of a rambling pile, rumbling Rayburn (never an AGA), and a podgy wheezing old Lab or two.

You can lose 'rich' in an evening, but you can never spend 'wealthy'. That's why they relax about it.

Edited By RevStew on 17/08/2018 13:21:55

Do you know me?

Comfortable if not what i call wealthy, certainly dishevelled and don't stop wearing my shoes just because of the odd bit of loose leather. Nissan x-trail, collie died but still have the dally and the rayburn needs a service. No barbour jacket and wife burnt my ski jacket last month — was only 25 years old but difficult to find the sleeve without going via the lining. Kitchen too cramped to live in .. we use the sunroom.. The crumbled pile is the other cottage – roof is in the kitchen there if anyone wants a fixer upper.. <g>

pgk

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

We are hosting an exhibition October 6-7 2018 in Melbourne Australia where I live.

Our club has been going since 1926

We are calling it "Lets Make It" Rather than calling it a model exhibition, this is in recognition of the varied interests of the members. The home workshop is changing for those lucky enough to have the space for one,

There will be plenty of models… also a fair share of high tech, Carbon fibre, Epoxy casting, CNC, Electronics, CAD Etc

Nevil Schute was one of our early members, a pioneer aviator and author I am sure if he was still alive he would be involved in the new as well as traditional model making. We need to diversify and embrace the new.

We particularly want to attract younger members. There will always be individuals who like making things. All "Makers" need to learn multiple disciplines, the multiple skills needed to fashion a raw material into an object. Let us share our knowledge with a wider audience.

**LINK**

Regards
John

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Ady1 on 17/08/2018 14:30:48:

We're the guys who are prepared for the zombie apocalypse when it arrives

Got more than my fair share of zombies already in my town.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by John McNamara on 18/08/2018 08:05:01:

…

We are calling it "Lets Make It" Rather than calling it a model exhibition, this is in recognition of the varied interests of the members. The home workshop is changing for those lucky enough to have the space for one,

Good idea that. Well done. "Model engineer" does have something of the trainspotting anorak's connotation to it in the younger mind. (From what I have been able to make out of the younger mind: ie not much.)

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 18/08/2018 09:11:24:

 

(From what I have been able to make out of the younger mind: ie not much.)

.

Do you have a licence to perform neurological experiments ?

.

Seriously though … yes I agree with your response to John.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 18/08/2018 09:57:05

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Posted by RevStew on 17/08/2018 13:21:31:

"Some of the wealthiest people I know are dreadfully dishevelled. Sole flapping off a shoe, faded red trousers and some creaking Daihatsu Fourtrack (not a Land Rover, never a Land Rover)."

Edited By RevStew on 17/08/2018 13:21:55

Ahhh yes, the ownership of a Land Rover usually requires the owner to have a good degree of engineering knowledge and ability.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

"Ahhh yes, the ownership of a Land Rover usually requires the owner to have a good degree of engineering knowledge and ability."

No, the owners usually have half a brain cell but EMPLOY the technical attributes. No one with more than half would consider buying a plague pit.

Regards Ian.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

Dave,

I did meet a duke once, opening an event I was attending. Old tweed jacket, baggy trousers, apologised for looking like a gardener…

[FMESParticipant @fmes]

Posted by Circlip on 18/08/2018 10:19:43:

"Ahhh yes, the ownership of a Land Rover usually requires the owner to have a good degree of engineering knowledge and ability."

No, the owners usually have half a brain cell but EMPLOY the technical attributes. No one with more than half would consider buying a plague pit.

Regards Ian.

Never had any problems with mine for 22 years, Perhaps my half a brain cell works better than a full brain.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

This thread is beginning to become a little worrisome.

I generally look a little scruffy and I am getting closer to being forced to live in the kitchen, only because the rest of the house, the garage and the workshop are full of tools and other modelling equipment. No claim to extreme wealth, probably because I spent it all on tools and other modelling equipment!

I also own a Land Rover bought new a little over 40 years ago. I like it because I can recognise the bits under the bonnet and can fix it when it wont go. I also admit I don't drive it a lot. It's uncomfortable (not designed for any human body shape that I can imagine), hot as Hades in summer, drinks petrol like it's going out of style and wont go around corners.

Now I am having to think about which lathe I am to be buried with. I think the Myford is a little small and likely to be rather uncomfortable and there is no way I could be set up between centers for burial. I knew there was a good reason why I wanted a lathe with 2 m between centers. As it is, with my large lathe only 1 m between centers I would have to be doubled up and goodness only know where the dead center would finish up!

Back to the original question. No I don't believe model engineering is dying. From the early days when ME covered every activity you could think of, it has split over and over into many different threads. For example model boating, once covered in ME has now diversified into RC model boating, model yacht racing, static model boat building, and probably a few others. Most of these people probably don't consider themselves to be model engineers and the die-hard metal manglers undoubtedly would not consider them to be model engineers, but they do fit under the umbrella and should be seen as part of the wider model engineering category. There are lots of people out there doing things and building things for their own entertainment, just not in the areas generally covered in the modern ME and MEW.

It is worth remembering that engineers engineered in wood and stone before they ever engineered in metal.

Just my thoughts anyway.

Pero

[Mick HenshallParticipant @mickhenshall99321]

Very good Pero made me chuckle

Mick

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

In respect of Ron Laden's original posted question, I expect that there are less folk actively 'engineering' models just as there are less people, especially young people , actively making model aircraft, boats and cars, for all the good reasons that have been mentioned. The modern trend amongst the young is to buy and use ready built models, for a while, then do something different….adrift on a sea of constant change .

After reading through this, and several other current threads, it does seem to me that it is many model engineer's levels of tolerance and good humour that is in decline, with several folk getting hot under the collar not because they are working feverishly at their machines, but simply because they disagree with another's post or opinion, or humour, or drift 'off-topic'! (not the choccy-bar variety!)

Perhaps the decline in engineering is proportional to the increase in keyboard activity? Back to the oil and swarf,

Trevor.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I don't see why people would start being attracted to a hobby that seems to generate such hostility. I've been lucky; at my local club people have been very welcoming, but if you were to gauge the hobby by some of the posts on online media you would feel very intimidated. It's no wonder teenagers feel more comfortable with gaming, which provides lots of constant positive feedback (beating a level, winning a multiplayer game). Some of the interactions here would put beginners off.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Landrovers, plague pits ? As ex owner of several landies I must say I tried to keep leftovers out . My other half of brain cell has been used up keeping the 2CV's going.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Percival Marshall would probably approve of people making jet engines in their shed and printing parts in plastic. As others have mentioned the scope of the original magazine was very wide and is today covered by perhaps 20 specialised titles.

Mike

[Author]

Posts