Is Knurling a health hazard?

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

At present I am using barrier cream; mainly as I'm working with cast iron on the Stuarts kit S50 & as we all know the cast iron gets into the pores & creases in your skin so it makes for easier clean up afterwards, I also use disposable latex gloves as first line protection with cast too.

George.

[John GardenerParticipant @johngardener91897]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

I fear that we will end up living in a totally sanitised world, until one year the whole human race will die because of our under-exercised immune systems.

More than one study has found children growing up on farms suffer fewer infections.

Neil

Absolutely, too many antiseptic wipes and too much use of antibiotics in our world. Our immune systems have gone dormant because of it.

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

I work in a skool full of horrible dirty smelly unhygenic pupils and I think it must be one of the most germ ridden places on earth and yet I manage not to contract anything nasty (so far).

I reckon like others here we are being disinfected into no resistance to infections.

As my granny always said " yeil eet a ton o dirt afore ye dee"

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Posted by Hopper on 16/05/2017 11:49:02:

Howard, definitely knurling is not a good idea on a production jig handled constantly for an 8 hour shift. Like rubbing a file on your hands all day long, to be sure. We used to use that Plastidip stuff on the QA clamps on car body spot weld jigs etc that operators were doing up and undoing all day long.

Having not long ago retired from a car factory we did not use knurled handles but plastic ball or formed plastic handles or plasti dip type on smaller clamps. With three shifts and 1000 operations a day there are a lot of hands on any manual clamp. As I mentioned above it was when I was talking to a jig fitter friend that he said Knurling was a risk and not used on production jigs although most operators use Kevlar reinforced gloves as handling sheet steel panels is hazardous ( I have the odd scar to prove it). I raised the point as devils advocate but I like knurled handles and quick release fastners and do not live in fear of them, as a nail biter I think I have a robust immune system. I can't say I like most workshop fluids hanging sampled paraffin, petrol, brake fluid, oil and a few others but the one that is truly nasty is Bakers Fluid but I am a beer drinker and don't like spirits (especially killed spirits).

Mike

[Mike LightfootParticipant @mikelightfoot72419]

All this reminds me of an old joke doing the rounds when i was in the RAF " air force officer and army officer taking a pee air force officer goes to walk straight out, army officer says we were taught to wash our hands after taking a pee at Sandhurst, air force officer replies at Cranwell we were taught not to piss on our hands in the first place"

[RICHARD GREEN 2Participant @richardgreen2]

NO…………………………. knurling is NOT a health hazzard…………………… get a life !…………. OR…………take up residence in the"Nanny" state

Back to the workshop now to have a cup of tea, and do some engineering,

Sorry for the RANT

Richard.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by RICHARD GREEN 2 on 17/05/2017 09:34:50:

NO…………………………. knurling is NOT a health hazzard…………………… get a life !…………. OR…………take up residence in the"Nanny" state

Back to the workshop now to have a cup of tea, and do some engineering,

Sorry for the RANT

Richard.

Funny how different people see the same thread. What I got from this one was "knurling is unlikely to be a problem UNLESS the tools are used repeatedly every day for weeks on end or you have a skin condition". Makes sense to me.

Dave

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I had a minor op a few weeks ago, the scar healed very well. I mentioned this at the checkup and doc. said " that's because with your lifestyle you have good resistance " Don't know whether to be pleased or not. Years ago worked in a hazardous factory and had weekly checkups. The doc. there said that lack of personal hygene was the biggest problem. BTW do not "free" peanuts on the pub bar.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

Dave, maybe where Richard was coming from is the 'elf n' safety has become such a dominant issue in life now that we all fret about something no-one would have thought twice about years ago?

We need the power of rational analysing thought these days, done for ourselves, but like common sense it isn't taught anymore it seems!

Chris

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

Re: "All this reminds me of an old joke doing the rounds when i was in the RAF " air force officer and army officer taking a pee air force officer goes to walk straight out, army officer says we were taught to wash our hands after taking a pee………………… "

When I worked in research, the 'gents' was shared between the chemistry and biology labs. The biologists always washed their hands before a pee (& after); the chemists only after.

Being in the former group, old habits die hard. The thought of those tiny spicules of steel which often embed themselves in the fingers after e.g. milling, getting embedded "there" ~~~

But this is getting off topic……….

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

I fear that we will end up living in a totally sanitised world, until one year the whole human race will die because of our under-exercised immune systems.

More than one study has found children growing up on farms suffer fewer infections.

Neil

That may be fewer allergies Niel.

regards Martin

[Michael BriggsParticipant @michaelbriggs82422]

Posted by Fowlers Fury on 17/05/2017 10:48:28:

When I worked in research, the 'gents' was shared between the chemistry and biology labs. The biologists always washed their hands before a pee (& after); the chemists only after.

Being in the former group, old habits die hard. The thought of those tiny spicules of steel which often embed themselves in the fingers after e.g. milling, getting embedded "there" ~~~

In a recent thread, someone had tried to loosen the spicules with a ring spanner ……….

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

A very long tome ago, a visit was made by scientists from Porton Down to our Lab. Max Perutz (look him up) worked on Heomoglobin in the deoxygenated state so had positive pressure glove boxes fed with nitrogen to greate an anoxic atmosphere. His glove boxes therefore had the gloves sticking out of the box when not actually being used. The Porton down lot took one look at them and ran. Then trickled back sheepishly when thought took over from autopilot. Just shows the power of learned reaction.

regards Martin

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

"A very long time ago…….to our lab" MRC-LMB ?

I'll never forget my visits to Porton, also a very long time ago.

Ugh.. those lunches in the "The Mess"….

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

I fear that we will end up living in a totally sanitised world, until one year the whole human race will die because of our under-exercised immune systems.

More than one study has found children growing up on farms suffer fewer infections.

Neil

That may be fewer allergies Niel.

Apparently the incidence of asthmas is reduced because farm kids suffer fewer viral respiratory diseases, so abit of both!

On Radio 4 today, research shows eating fermented food diversifies your gut flora more than probiotic yoghurt, with significant health benefits.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Long, long ago I knew a chap who worked on bacteria that live in oil tanks while at Porton Down. He always said Grimbledon Down was pretty much spot on.

Neil

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Posted by mechman48 on 16/05/2017 17:32:45:

At present I am using barrier cream; mainly as I'm working with cast iron on the Stuarts kit S50 & as we all know the cast iron gets into the pores & creases in your skin so it makes for easier clean up afterwards, I also use disposable latex gloves as first line protection with cast too.

George.

What is a good economical barrier cream to purchase ?

Cheers, Mike

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

I wouldn't worry about knurling, it's the touch screens now being used in public places you need to worry about. It's a well known healthcare fact that one in three people have feces residue on their on their hands!

[Wayne WardParticipant @wayneward51978]

I suppose that someone licking inordinate amounts of sweaty, knurled gym equipment might be at risk, but is knurled workshop equipment really a comparable or worse health hazard than other things that we judge as much more benign, like touching bog door handles, stroking pets, touching carpets, curtains and soft furnishings, sharing drink bottles, swimming in rivers or the sea etc? I imagine that machine coolants and oils cause many more problems. But I’m going to put them all into a single category called “things not to worry about”….

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

Edited

On Radio 4 today, research shows eating fermented food diversifies your gut flora more than probiotic yoghurt, with significant health benefits.

Neil

Did they the suggest that distilling of fermented barley may spoil the health benefits ?

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Wayne Ward on 17/05/2017 20:40:30:
I suppose that someone licking inordinate amounts of sweaty, knurled gym equipment might be at risk.

Damn, I better kick the habit then. I always specify the extra coarse knurled grips as they're the juiciest!

Michael W

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 17/05/2017 16:23:23:

Posted by Martin Kyte on 17/05/2017 10:54:02:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 15/05/2017 22:34:54:

I fear that we will end up living in a totally sanitised world, until one year the whole human race will die because of our under-exercised immune systems.

More than one study has found children growing up on farms suffer fewer infections.

Neil

That may be fewer allergies Niel.

Apparently the incidence of asthmas is reduced because farm kids suffer fewer viral respiratory diseases, so abit of both!

On Radio 4 today, research shows eating fermented food diversifies your gut flora more than probiotic yoghurt, with significant health benefits.

Neil

My point is that 'under exercised immune systems' does not stack up with 'fewer infections'. More infections would excercise the immune system.You need the exposure to train the system. Asthma is an allergic reaction.

You really need to habituate not sensitise. Small amounts of intermittant exposure sensitises and then you get an allergic reaction. Continuous exposure habituates and you don't. It's not as simple as you would think.

The main point is that humans have lived around animals for millenia and our immune systems have adapted to cope with the pathogens and proteins encountered. Urban living has removed most af the exposure and that causes issues.

You are probably right about farm kids having fewer infections that lead to illness but that may be because of the lifestyle, exercise, food , fresh air etc.

regards Martin

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by George Clarihew on 17/05/2017 22:23:15:

Edited

On Radio 4 today, research shows eating fermented food diversifies your gut flora more than probiotic yoghurt, with significant health benefits.

Neil

Did they the suggest that distilling of fermented barley may spoil the health benefits ?

 

they distill poor quality wine to make brandy, so obviously best bitter is of higher quality than scotch! I also find it less likely to render me legless, as old age prevents me drinking it by the gallon (mis-spent youth playing rugby)

Edited By duncan webster on 18/05/2017 11:00:22

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

Martin, as posted b4 – were you MRC-LMB ?

Although conscious of the serious drift here away from the OP's question; asthma is a generic term of course, what is at issue is 'extrinsic allergic asthma' or hypersensitivity. You wrote " Small amounts of intermittant exposure sensitises and then you get an allergic reaction. Continuous exposure habituates and you don't. It's not as simple as you would think". Your 1st sentence is correct, the 2nd not so for an atopic individual exposed to chemical allergens in the workplace. I spent many years investigating hypersensitivity to diisocyanates and once sensitised, a worker could not tolerate exposure to even "a few molecules" of -NCO.

Relevance to model engineering ? Probably minimal, but we may encounter chemical allergens. Twin-pack isocyanate paints are a recognised inhalation hazard, colophony in soft solder flux, numerous adhesives etc less so. An awful lot of hyperbole is written about health hazards but minimising exposure is always worthwhile.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Hi Fowler, I still am.

I am an engineer not a scientist I would hast'n to add but you do pick up an awfull lot of knowledge if you take an interest. My basic point was that the immune system is far more subtle than you think as you have no doubt had first hand knowledge of in your own work. I was responding to the farm animal exposure point really which from an evolutionary perspectve should be a normal part of our continuous exposure in a way that industrial chemicals are not.(generally).

"minimising exposure is always worthwhile" cannot dissaree on a general basis, with the notable exception of vaccination.

Always welcome more informed opinion to my comments, I learn more that way.

regards Martin

[Author]

Posts