Is COMPAC’ DIAL GAUGE METRIC TYPE 532 60mm Dia worth £45?

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 23/12/2019 15:14:41:

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 23/12/2019 14:08:23:

Would this Mitutoyo 513-404-10T Dial Test Indicator be suitable?

More than suitable, but the word I'd use is 'extravagant'!

My biggest regret buying down to a price wasn't the dials, it was the stand! I bought the simplest magnet base available. It works but sure doesn't make manoeuvring the dial into position easy.

Dave

You are right Dave and thanks for making me see the light.

Austin

Edited By Austin O’Hara on 24/12/2019 16:23:45

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

Posted by Brian G on 24/12/2019 09:05:32:

One thing that may be worth considering is splashing out the extra on a vertical DTI where the dial is on the end of the body. It can be used on the lathe or for trueing the vice (or stock) on a mill in the same way as the more conventional horizontal type, but when centring work on the mill the dial is always visible, so no need for a mirror.

Unlike horizontal DTIs I haven't seen sub-£10 ones on eBay or Amazon but elsewhere they start at about £30 (Zoro have an "Oxford" one reduced to £28.99 right now with free postage).

Brian G

I like this idea and may go for it in conjunction with Moore & Wright Mini Magnetic Indicator Stand Base Fine Adjustment 497-01 Series from Machine DRO

The web site does not provide any dimensions or strength of magnet so I will have to contact DRO.

Cost is £51 with free postage.

So total outlay will be £79.99

 

It looks very similar to ARC's

 

Thanks to everyone for your advice.

Cheers,

Austin

Edited By Austin O’Hara on 24/12/2019 16:44:51

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 21/12/2019 14:02:35:

[…]

I intend using it on a Sherline Lathe as an indicator of run out and alignment.

.

Austin,

Whilst the magnetic stand looks useful … Please bear in mind that a lever type indicator can probably be clamped in the toolholder of your lathe. That’s what the black bars are for, in the boxed Verdict set that Clive Foster linked earlier.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/12/2019 16:51:00

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 24/12/2019 16:49:33:

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 21/12/2019 14:02:35:

[…]

I intend using it on a Sherline Lathe as an indicator of run out and alignment.

.

Austin,

Whilst the magnetic stand looks useful … Please bear in mind that a lever type indicator can probably be clamped in the toolholder of your lathe. That’s what the black bars are for, in the boxed Verdict set that Clive Foster linked earlier.

MichaelG.

OK Michael.

So I can initially dispense with the stand for my purposes and a possible project would be to make something similar to that shown below. Except I would need to use the 6mm spigot which comes with the vertical indicator.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Excellent point from Michael about mounting in the tool post so the cross slide feed can be used for fine adjustment. Although I have the mount set for my Verdicts I generally don't use it. A magnetic base with effective fine adjustment works better for me. Especially as my main lathe has nice flat cross slide for the base to sit on.

These days it probably doesn't make sense to fabricate your own mounting system. Time spent is probably more valuable than the relatively modest cost of buying things. Bit different 45 odd years ago when I got started.

I found some 10 or 12 year old pictures of my small Verdict mounted in various ways dating back to when I had a SouthBend Heavy 10, not so good for mounting a magnetic base on the cross slide, which may be inspirational.

First the (then) selection of mounts. There are more now! The inexpensive one on the left with its "circle with a chunk out" screw adjuster is very effective with lightweight indicators like the small Verdict featured in the pictures. Anything over 1 1/2" or 40 mm dial is likely to be too heavy. The big Eclipse magnetic base on the right is very, very stable mostly due to its large diameter column. The old Eclipse bases had a simple spring loaded pivot with perhaps ± 10° of travel and relatively large diameter carrier arms which keep the indicator very steady.

My most common set up. Mag base on cross slide, base adjuster used to set vertical position, cross slide to set transverse position and saddle to set longitudinal. Small Eclipse base is decently rigid, solid bar is generally stiffer than the other styles. Probably a quickly posed picture, normally the dial would be facing me.

Lateral thinking when I had several things to set up. Adjustable arm of the cheap mount strapped to the supporting bar for the chuck guard. Angles of dangles are not ideal but worked fine for final adjustment of several nearly, but not quite, the same parts.

This little stem with dovetail slide for side to side movement is really intended for use on the mill but posed up here in the tailstock. Stem on the end of the indicator is held in a stiffly pivoting carrier. Push'n prod adjustment is Ok with one thou sensitivity indicator. High sensitivity, tenths thou, one needs a very steady hand. I can but would seriously rather not.

Simple jointed rod carrier used on the Bridgeport to set vices parallel to table and similar basic jobs.

The indicator collection, then, more now. The pressed tin device at the left rear is a Unique. Sold for a few shillings when I was in short pants with maybe 20 thou travel one way its unreasonably accurate, especially considering the innards are basically a needle on a pivot. Under half a thou error with care.  I made the joint rods on brass base thing for it when on first or second year wages.

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/12/2019 20:18:46

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/12/2019 20:20:19

Edited By Clive Foster on 24/12/2019 20:22:24

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

There is little point mounting the greatest ever indicator on a cheap junk stand ! Kinda like mounting a diamond on the end of a t*rd!

I would like a Noga but $$$$$ here in OZ .

I remember watching a Youtube video where Stefan Gotteswinter made a stand using a Noga base he purchased – ended up being a rock solid stand !

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by XD 351 on 24/12/2019 21:18:51:

There is little point mounting the greatest ever indicator on a cheap junk stand ! Kinda like mounting a diamond on the end of a t*rd!

I would like a Noga but $$$$$ here in OZ .

I remember watching a Youtube video where Stefan Gotteswinter made a stand using a Noga base he purchased – ended up being a rock solid stand !

.

I was fortunate to get one of these Mitutoyo 'gooseneck' jobs a while ago, at a very reasonable price … the locking mechanism is excellent.

**LINK**

https://www.hroberts-di.com/all-metrology-c49/stands-and-workholdings-c130/mitutoyo-7012-10-flexible-column-stand-p2113/s2113

MichaelG.

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

As an update to this thread and for those who ask about DTI's and magnetic stand. I purchased the mini magnetic stand and vertical dial as shown in a post above. For a Sherline lathe ( arrived last week) the stand is not worth the package it was sent in and I wonder how many users out there successfully use this stand. I intend following Michael G's advice and attempt to make a clamp to be used on a tool holder. So £51 down the drain.

Austin

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Send the poxy thing back if it isn't fit for purpose!!! You are entitled to a full refund under the distance selling regulations, the seller is also liable for return postage.

Tony

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 28/02/2020 20:12:26:

As an update to this thread and for those who ask about DTI's and magnetic stand. I purchased the mini magnetic stand and vertical dial as shown in a post above. For a Sherline lathe ( arrived last week) the stand is not worth the package it was sent in and I wonder how many users out there successfully use this stand. I intend following Michael G's advice and attempt to make a clamp to be used on a tool holder. So £51 down the drain.

Austin

.

[ my emboldening ]

Sorry to read that sad reflection upon the once-great name of Moore & Wright

MichaelG.

.

Reference from Austin’s earlier post:

Moore & Wright Mini Magnetic Indicator Stand Base Fine Adjustment 497-01 Series from Machine DRO

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 28/02/2020 20:12:26:

As an update to this thread and for those who ask about DTI's and magnetic stand. I purchased the mini magnetic stand and vertical dial as shown in a post above. For a Sherline lathe ( arrived last week) the stand is not worth the package it was sent in and I wonder how many users out there successfully use this stand. I intend following Michael G's advice and attempt to make a clamp to be used on a tool holder. So £51 down the drain.

Austin

Could you say why?

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Austin, I have a similar one, which isn't an M&R, but it works just fine within its limitations.

If you are having problems with yours, would it not be better to contact your supplier first, rather that just moan about it on here? Maybe you have just received a faulty one, which I'm sure they would replace or refund you.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 29/02/2020 10:01:11

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Nick

I'm glad that you found that style of mount satisfactory and it does what you need it to do.

However, having used similar styles of positioning adjuster in the past, I'm unsurprised that Austin has issues with it. In my experience the layout sacrifices load capacity and rough adjustment adjustment reliability for compactness. Its also inherently incapable handling anything more than quite small loads. Especially so if you want any sort of reach.

The way you have it set up is pretty much "best book" arrangement with the intermediate link at an angle run the vertical plane and the indicator carrier more or less vertical minimising overhung loads. The lightweight Verdict body gives you reach without serious loads on the pivots.

I imagine that Austin wants to set things up with significant reach and, therefore, overhanging loads. Doesn't take much overhung load before it starts sagging unless the double bar between the two pivots is tightened up so much that you cannot push things into place against stiff pivot friction. Once in that regime the beast becomes monumentally frustrating to use. I'd say that Compac dial gauge is just too heavy.

Not a style that I would ever use because its simply too limited for general use. But your set up could work fine for about a third of what I do. To me that style of mag base is a device to be used when its most appropriate rather than a do lots of jobs design. Your use and set-up pretty much hits the sweet spot where it is appropriate for the job.

The two big Eclipse bases are my go to mounts simply because they will take anything I have at any extension, some my dials are heavy.

Clive

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

Hello Nick. I am sorry you took my response as a "moan".

It certainly was not meant to be but an observation on a specific set up using three parameters (vertical reading gauge, Sherline bed and M&R Stand). The main criticism I have for this combination is that the centre adjustable arm is just not long enough to move the dial into a convenient position for reading. With larger diameter stock it will be difficult. To tighten the lock nut adjacent to the dial one needs to use a pliers otherwise the dial will slip from the dovetail grove. The magnetic force between the bed and stand is not sufficient and the set up easily moves. It is impossible to zero the gauge without disturbing the position. Again not a moan but an observation.

MichaelG: The M&R materials are fine and the unit is not faulty.

Because I purchased the gauge and stand one month before the lathe arrived the returns policy is invalidated, however, I will contact the supplier.

Cheers,

Austin

[VicParticipant @vic]

I recently bought just a mag base from Chronos for £11.00 and it’s very nicely made and seems quite powerful.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Hi Austin

Is there a bevel at the bottom of the base or do you still have the "keep plate" in position ?

Emgee

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Austin, I did say mine works within its limitations. I was directing the moan at you saying it wasn't worth the packaging it came in. Like Emgee, I'm wondering if you still have the "keep plate" on, as it looks like it in you photo. Here's mine with a 200g dial gauge at 215mm from the centre, an impractical use for this stand I know, but the magnet and the clamp are strong enough to hold it up in free air and I can push the plunger up to its full length without the stand moving or the clamp yielding and I haven't had to over tighten the clamp screw.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 29/02/2020 12:25:38

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Comparing the pictures of Austin's and Nicholas's. it looks a sif Austin still has the keeper under his magnetic base.

If so, I am surprised that it exerts much magnetic grip at all.

Often, the problem is detaching the thing afterwards and keeping it clear of swarf.

Austin,

Try removing the circular plate from the bottom of your mag base, and see if it sticks any better!

AND let us know the result please.

Howard

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Best trick for keeping those permanent magnet bases free of ferrous swarf is to wrap in good quality cling film or sit inside a small thin plastic bag.

Carefully unwrap after lifting off and the swarf comes away with the plastic.

One layer of cling film or bag plastic won't affect the grip.

I'm impressed by how well that clamp holds the gauge on the long arm in Nicholas's picture. The similar style two arm gripping balls clamps I've used would have needed serious tightening to support that much offset load. Much too tight for easy adjustment. The Achilles heel of all these friction pivot clamps is the contradictory requirements of being slack enough to move yet stiff enough to stay put either for direct use or whilst tightening up a bit more before using. It does limit the practical load capability compared to other styles which have a larger range of positive screw adjustment than the simple split bar and screw system provided.

Clive

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

My mag bases almost always live inside a plastic bag When the swarf builds up, take base out of bag, whilst holding over suitable receptacle.

If the base does get contaminated with swarf, Blu Tack seems to be an effective way of removibg it. But the Blu Tack is not much use afterwards!

Howard

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Austin O'Hara on 29/02/2020 11:02:41:

[…]

MichaelG: The M&R materials are fine and the unit is not faulty.

[…]

.

Then, my sincere apologies to all concerned

… It seems that I completely misunderstood your ‘review’

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Just a daft thought, but what's a Sherline Lathe bed made of? Is it an Aluminium extrusion with steel running strips on the edges rather than one with a solid steel or cast-iron top? (I've never got close enough to a Sherline to inspect it properly.)

A magnetic stand won't work effectively unless there's iron or steel underneath…

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 29/02/2020 13:01:42:

Comparing the pictures of Austin's and Nicholas's. it looks a sif Austin still has the keeper under his magnetic base.

Yes it does look like the keeper is still in place!

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Austin O’HaraParticipant @austinohara24453]

I apologise and retract the stupid statement I made about the Moore and Wright mini magnetic stand.

As Emgee pointed out the “keep plate”’ was still in place. The magnetic force is very strong with the plate removed.

I am happy with this setup as the tail stock allows some fine adjustment.

Austin

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