Irwin Record vice swivel base

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

My workshop vice has done me proud over the years but it could do with a bigger jaw opening.

So as father's Day is upon us I have a Irwin Record number 5 vice one the way!

I understand a swivel base is available for this and as my existing vice swivels I think I might miss that feature but wonder how much height it adds to the vice?

Anyone got this combination or similar for ad(vice)?

Alan

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I tried googling your vise and there were a few pictures of a base which looks like being an inch high. I,m not sure if it could be retrofitted, however.

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Thanks, definitely retrofittable to an existing vice, they are available for various models. Agree it looks like about an inch but I wonder if that could raise it a bit high especially for the likes of filing.

Think I will hang on till I get it as it could well be higher than my existing 4 inch job anyway.

Alan

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Thanks, definitely retrofittable to an existing vice, they are available for various models. Agree it looks like about an inch but I wonder if that could raise it a bit high especially for the likes of filing.

Think I will hang on till I get it as it could well be higher than my existing 4 inch job anyway.

Alan

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Could you not just stand on an inch board if you have a filing job? That, or saw off about an inch from the bench legs?

Edited By not done it yet on 17/06/2021 09:47:11

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Or find my old Cuban heels!

Alan

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by AJW on 17/06/2021 09:56:05:

Or find my old Cuban heels!

Alan

Or wear clogs; in addition to the extra height they are comfortable on concrete and provide some protection against impact.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I did consider including to wear stiletto heels but thought it might not go down too well. Couldn’t think of the right word (cuban) at the time.🙂

Platform shoes are not really a safe option in my book – not for anywhere, let alone in a workshop.🙂

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A 5" vise will be about 1 1/2" higher than a 4" one before adding a swivel base.

[John ReeseParticipant @johnreese12848]

I have two bench vises with swivel bases I have never used the swivels.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Not a recommendation for the specific item but this type of swivel would be more favourable (the vertical swivel/rotation) for me.

LINK

Edited By not done it yet on 20/06/2021 08:28:50

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Swivel vice bases tend to be more of a fitters tool than an engineering one.

Handy when operating on an assembly with stuff hanging down the side that would argue with the bench top with the vice in the standard parallel to the bench position and prevent you grabbing the bit that needs grabbing. Standard bench vice mounting practice "at one end over the leg" gives you one clear side but sometimes you need both clear.

Apart from the height issue a potentially major issue with swivel vices is that they are considerably weaker mount than properly bolting the vice direct to the bench top. Two bots rather than three holding into cast iron via simple heads running under a slot. My steel topped bench has hefty angle and U sections undreneath the top carefully placed to accept vice fittings.

Maybe twice a decade I think a swivel base might be handy. Usually on a welding job. But, so far, a bit of coffee fueled creativity has always resolved the issue. If I ever get totally stuck I shall make up a one time mount from inch + thick steel with tapped holes appropriately arranged to get the a suitable angle of rotation. Hefty hex socket countersunk head bolts in the standard vice mount position should hold it down just fine. Odds are I'd make it with tapped holes allowing 30°, 45° and 90° rotations and call it good.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Interesting link from NDY.

Basically that Yost vice is a Swindens knock off. For the real thing **LINK**

http://www.swindens.org/welcome-to-swindens/4593841842

No prices on the site to protect casual browsers from heart attacks!

Weak point of all the copies is the simple sideways screw to clamp against horizontal rotation which is inadequate for heaving and adjusting jobs. The forces quoted by some suppliers sound impressive but don't actually add up to much when you get out to vice jaw range. The real thing has vertical clamp bolts closing a slit in a bore made a close sliding fit on the main bar. Swindens don't do a 5" like that Yost but if they did it would be approaching twice the weight!

Allegedly some of the knock offs are made from a very ordinary breed of cast iron and prone to fracture. Given the overhung nature of operations likely with such vices thats something I'd not like to verify by practical experience.

Clive

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

I have had this Record swivel base vice for over 40 years. Fitted with aluminium jaws early in it's life.

I can truly say that I have never used the swivel function and that the circular base can get in the way of holding some jobs!

John

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Thanks for your inputs. Only yesterday did I use the swivel facility of my vice on a long piece of 1 inch by 1/4 bar!

As you say it's what you get used to, but I think I would miss it, even if only occasionally. I like the idea of additional holes so the vice can be mounted 'on the angle' when required but rather than add height with a base I would go for extra fixing positions.

Existing bench is 1/8 in steel on top of 1.5 inch ply mounted on a square section steel frame on a concrete floor and bolted to the wall with the vice bolted in the usual corner position, so it's pretty solid.

New vice due tomorrow!

Alan

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by not done it yet on 20/06/2021 08:27:44:

Not a recommendation for the specific item but this type of swivel would be more favourable (the vertical swivel/rotation) for me.

LINK

Edited By not done it yet on 20/06/2021 08:28:50

Among other vices, I've got this one, which I purchased in the UK.

It's been very convenient to use, and the extra height is a bonus because the heavy bench on which it sits is lower than average.

I can detect no appreciable difference in stability between this vice when bolted down and my old non-swivelling Record of a similar weight.

I do use the swivel facility, and apparently more frequently than most people here. I've yet to use the pipe jaws. It is very smooth in operation, requiring only one finger spinning round the middle of the tommy bar to quickly reposition the moveable jaw.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Alan

Extra holes will be a lot cheaper than a swivel base!

Consider permanently fitting a plate underneath with tapped holes for the bolts so you don't have to muck about with nuts'n washers underneath when moving the vice. Do remember to take a nuts depth or so of thread off the end of the bolt producing a plain spigot to help guide it in square helping to avoid cross threading. Well worth doing if using nuts too. Most especially if groping at some distance to fix things.

A lateral thinking version of this idea is to pre-fit bolts screwing up through the plate from underneath in all the holes. Just back off the ones you are not using till the end is flush with the bench. Keeps the holes and threads clear of swarf and stuff. Nut on to where you can see it has to be easiest way of fixing down. Thread in underplate needs to be fairly tight so the unused bolts don't unscrew under vibration when working. I usually use a first (taper) tap to leave a couple of turns a touch undersize when needing frictional tightness. Or acceot the minor inconvenience of a locknut.

Clive

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Clive, I think extra holes is the way, also without incurring extra height. One thing I will do is make a 'plain' set of jaws. Had my existing vice jaws modified by grinding the grip surface off and never regretted it.

Alan

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The classic start point for vice height is to mount it so the top of the jaws are at elbow height with your arm bent. As benches in our workshops were a standard height then tall lads often fitted a raising block to suit them, the short ones had a duck board to suit them. Duckboards were standard to avoid working on a concrete floor all day and although you might think they would present a trip hazard it never seemed an issue.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 20/06/2021 17:00:23

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

I swivel my vice all the time. I guess it partly depends where and how the vice is mounted. Today I needed to support this riveting dolly and since the vice is mounted so that a long bar can be held downwards in front of the bench, a small amount of rotation was required to bring the support bar on to the bench:

Rod

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Hi all

I have a Record number 4 vice on a swivel base, so similar to but slightly bigger than Journeyman's, and of similar age. I do use the swivel usually only to get a position at right angles to the usual position. This makes it much easier to file or saw along the length of a workpiece. I can't remember ever wanting to fix the vice at any other angle, so perhaps the alternate holes schemes of Clive and AJW would be a usable alternative to a swivel base – I suspect it would need to be quick and easy to make the change or it would never get used! The ideal might be a vice mounted on the corner of a bench which can be approached from 2 directions.

I accept Clive's other points about the swivel base not being quite as strong as direct mounting to the bench but I find mine quite rigid enough for ordinary filing and sawing work. These are cast iron vices and so not really suitable for heavy hammering for which a steel vice is much stronger. I share the concern about the relative quality of the cast iron used in some new vices compared to the older made in Sheffield ones.

Rod

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

Well the beastie arrived today, what a lump!

First job was to dismantle it it for de greasing – everything was covered in grease and where it was required it didn't look particularly clean, as in not cleaned before application.

All cleaned up and de burred where required, graphite grease applied to leadscrew and nut and it now works to my satisfaction.

As suggested it stands a good inch taller than my old one so will not be increasing it further by adding a swivel base I shall just make it able to rotate by about 30 degree although that has to be confirmed before I start drilling fixing holes.

Alan

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The Record No. 5 was the standard issue vice in the factory, the legendary story was often related of a chap who decided to liberate one by waiting for a rainy day and hanging one round his neck with the weight of it taken by the crossbar of his bicycle, the whole plot covered by his cycle cape. Inevitably it slipped off going out the gate so he had a vice hanging round his neck, I think his mission succeeded but I imagine he had a sore neck for a while.

Mike

[AJWParticipant @ajw]

My Dad used to work at STC in Woolwich back in the day and would relate that story of the guy going out past the gatehouse when his plan failed!

Not the sort of thing you would want hanging round your neck!

Alan

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