Introduction

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Hi Hi one and all

I am trying to identify a lathe I am attempting to restore. I believe it is pre war, so possibly ML 1,2,3 or 4. The serial number is K 944, and it is 3 1/2" to centre. I have read all the information on the likes of Lathe.co.uk, without much success. As the parts came as bits, I feel as though I need some help!

I am also trying to work out how the gear guard is fitted. I enclose a picture of the guard and I know it fits on a spindle which is bolted into a bracket which in turn is bolted into the head stock. The spindle on which the guard slides has a tapped hole, which I think is designed to stop the guard from sliding off. Any help would be appreciated. I also have enclosed the the speed change set of pulleys with the drive and slipper pullies. I have to make and fit the motor and lay shaft some time in the future.

Any help would be very much appreciated. Also can you get hold of manuals or copies of manuals?.

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Identifying an old Myford Lathe

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Andrew,

I think it an ML4. the bolting of the headstock and the mounting arrangement for the tailstock being the clues.

I also have a copy of the manual I can send to your email address if you will PM it to me

Kind regards Brian

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The myfordlathes group on the groups.io site have most of the available documentation for the ML 1-4 series. The info is downloadable for members of the group and the forum is very helpful.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 20/02/2023 09:20:17

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Thank you both for your response, I am sure this won't be the last time I seek help and guidance 😉

Andy

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Lathes UK devote a few pages to the Myford Ml1,2 3 and 4.

If the centre heightbis 3 1/2" it will be a 3 or a 4.

(! and 2 were 3 1/8" )

The mahoritynof threads will be 1/4 BSF, with a mfew BSW (5/16 and either 1/8 or 3/32 from far distant memory )

Gib adjusters may well be BA.

The earlier models had stabdard 7/8 BSW (9tpi) mandrel theras, many had 7/8 x 12 tpi, and I think that a few of the last ones had 1 1/8 x 12 tpi, but not the 1 1/4" register used on the 7 Series.

It might be mworth making an adaptor with a 7/8 thread to suitb the Mandrel and an external 1/1/8 x 12 tpi, with 1 1/4" register so that chucls, Faceplates etc for the 1947 onwards 7 SEries can be fitted.

Don't forget to puyt on two flats so that the adaptor can be screwed onb or more importantly, off!

There were two two types of gear cover. The more usual typ hinged on a horizontal bar in a castong fixed to mthe back of the Headstock, while the less common variety hinged in the vertical plane.

Gears ar, like the later 7s, 20 DP, 14.5 PA, and 5/8 bore, but are drivem driving collars, and compounded by 3/32 pins. The laterb 7 Series used keys.

A 7 Series gear can be used on an earlier ML4 by drilloing the 3/32 hol thriugh and using that as a drillinbg jig for a 7 Series gear.

The holes should not go right through so that bthe pin does fall out, so the hole in nthe "jig" gear might need blocking..

The Tailstock barrel is, or should be, prevented from rotating by a 1/4 BSF grubscrew with a key on the nd. Consequently the setting can be a bit of a "suck it and see" affair until the grubscrew is screwed in too far and jams the barrel. Then back off 1/2 turn and refitb the plates that restrain nthe handwheel!

HTH

After thought. If you get an eatra 20T or two, you can set up a fine feed using bthe8 tpi Leadscrew.  20:60/20:65/20:60 (This prevents any clash between the two 20:60 meshes. Rhe banjo may need a bit of fettling at bthe Mandrel end to allow the first stud to give the correct mesh between the 20T driver and the first 60T

I set backlash, starting at the Leadscrew end, by running a piece of paper (About 0.003" )through each mesh, to give minimum backlash, and then work my way back to towards the mandrel, swinging the banjo to set the final backlash with the 20T driving gear.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 20/02/2023 17:21:36

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Howard

Thank you for your time and information, very much appreciated. I am slowly learning all the terminology for the various component parts.

The centre height is definitely 3 ½” so will be either a 3 or 4. I have a number of taps and dies and have found the ¼” BSF tap and die very useful. These were my grandfather’ who was a well known motor mechanic at Brooklands working in the Jackson shed before the war. I will have to check the tpi on the mandrel to establish what it is, but I have noticed that the spare face plate and chucks which my dad had with the lathe may well be of the later versions. The tails stock does have the ¼ BSF grub screw with the key on the end which fits neatly in the slot on the side of the barrel.

There is a lot to take in contained in your message so once again thank you, as I am sure it will help the project to move along.

Regards

Andy

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Howard

I forgot to say the gear guard does mount on a horizontal bar which is screwed into a casting which is bolted onto the back of the headstock. There is a 1/4" BSF tapped blind hole about half way along and I am not sure of it's function. It would appear to prevent the guard from sliding off as the guard needs to be able to rotate on the bar to be lifted and held in position on the cast lugs, but bits appear to be missing.

As you indicate the picture shows the more common one, with a hole in the guard which in turn allows long items to slide into the mandrel.

Thanks

Andy

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Andy,

Your lathe is most likely to be an ML4 as they were most common by a long way. There is a lot of information already on this forum. The trick is to start with a search for "ML4" which brings up (at present) 48 topics. When you've read them, try ML2, then ML3 and finally ML1. You'll learn a lot,

George

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Thks George

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Andy, if you need 1/4"BSF bolts send me a PM I may be able to help you. Noel.

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Thank you Noel, currently have a few myself, but thank you for the offer.

Regards

Andy

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The casting, with the bar carrying the guard is held to the headstock by two 5/16 BSW setscrews, as I recall.

It is about 5 years since I helped recommission a ML4 and wrote the article. And my memory bhas not improved much since then.

Howard

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

Howard

Sorry for delay in getting back to you – and others – and thank you all for the support and information. As you can see from the pictures, I have been slowly getting the items coated, I didn't like the though o 'vomit' green and this was about the closest to the colour I found below the black oil and grease.

Anyway I hope you can see from the pictures the guard arrangement. I have bolted the support arm onto the headstock, but I am not sure the purpose of the 1/4" BSF blind tapped hole half way along the mild steel bar. I believe the cast lugs on the guard are designed to hole the guard up when changing speeds and to hold it in place when operating the lathe. I am not sure if something is missing which would be required for the correct installation. You can see the guard aligns with the mandrel, so a long bar would be able to protrude through the guard

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

There was probably a threaded dowel pin (with a parallel shank & a slot to tighten it) fitted in the hole so that the the cover can be pulled to the side by a limited amount and swivelled out of the way, without coming right off the shaft.

Edited By DiogenesII on 25/02/2023 08:09:19

[Andrew Skelton 1Participant @andrewskelton1]

I think you are probably correct and may be I am over thinking it. I will make a dowel pin and I think the diameter may need to be considered.

Thanks for your input

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

A bolt with the 'ead cut off and a hacksaw slot for a screwdriver in the end of the shank would probably do the job.

The paint colour certainly brightens the old girl up and makes a change from the ubiquitous machinery grey.

Edited By Hopper on 25/02/2023 10:10:55

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Normally the body diameter is (nominally) the same as that of the thread, so for 1/4 BSF, making it from 1/4" stock should be fine.

PS – Yes, what Hopper said.

Edited By DiogenesII on 25/02/2023 10:17:37

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Hopper on 25/02/2023 10:09:58:

The paint colour certainly brightens the old girl up and makes a change from the ubiquitous machinery grey.

Edited By Hopper on 25/02/2023 10:10:55

I'm pretty sure that lathe now self identifies as a boy.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The paint job really makes it look nice!

I was thinking of the 1/4 BSF bolt screwing into the bar, through a collar that locates the gear coverendwise, possibly a protruding stud might allso act a end stops for when open or closed.s?

Howard

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