Interview Harold J. Turpin june 1943

[peter lejeuneParticipant @peterlejeune62195]

mr turpin told me himself that S was for his boss T for turpin and EN for enfield Thanks Peter Lejeune

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm looking forward to reading Askild's article because I now think he's on to something! This is because there looks to be strong evidence that at both Shepard and Turpin thought that EN=England. And these guys were far from being ignorant bystanders: Turpin worked for RSAF Enfield and Major Shepard was recalled to the colours after retiring from Woolwich Arsenal to work for BSA.

I initially preferred the idea that EN=Enfield because this is consistent with BREN, ADEN and TADEN. But this may be a red-herring because of these acronyms only BREN predates STEN. Is it possible that on first introduction in 1937 that the EN in BREN also stood for England? I'm beginning to think officialdom started their nomenclature with EN meaning England and then changed to EN=Enfield a few years later.

None of the early references to the BREN gun I've found explain how the BREN was named: they just call it the Bren Gun. Askild has made a strong case using Model Engineering Magazine that EN probably meant England when the STEN was first introduced. Can anyone undermine his case by proving that the EN in BREN definitely meant Enfield before 1941?

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The Bren gun was made under licence by Enfield and as has been stated before the name is an acronym for BRNO-Enfield. Ergo BREN.

Regarding the talk that the STEN gun walked all over the place or rode up when firing, I did not find it so. I was able to place shots singly and in short bursts of 3 or 4 shots and maintain a 9" group centrally.

Back to the BREN, this light machine gun was too accurate and did not scatter bullets like most machine guns. It fired as well as a rifle in single shot mode and on Repetition would still maintain grouping but vertically. It was fun to fire and I still have burn scars on my wrist where hot cases fell into my sleeve when firing. I was often designated to carry the BREN and would stuff my pouches with magazines and even put them in my side pockets.

Covering an assault with the BREN usually meant you had someone to watch the bullet fall/impact and thump you on the shoulder if the lads got near the impact area.I never hit anyone but one time someone ran through my sight picture as i was firing. The barrel would get quite hot and you carried 2 barrels to swop, the BREN was a closed breech cycle and it was possible if the barrel was hot to cook off a round.

Clive PS. thats why I am deaf!

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by ronan walsh on 05/03/2015 00:19:39:

P.s, isn't discussion of naughty things like firearms banned on here like it is everywhere else by the politically correct nazi's ?

No Ronan, Guns aren't naughty, people are. On a personal note I think I show great restraint considering what I actually do in my workshop. And for those interested, I am taking delivery on Thursday of the barrels I have been looking for for a double rifle build. Now that is going to be interesting.

graham.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

If you assume BR repesents Brno (a town), it makes more sense that EN represents Enfield otherwise it would be a Czen Gun.

 

Edited By Chris Trice on 18/03/2015 00:59:59

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

There doesn't appear to be a 'U' in the name assuming this is the same company:

http://www.zbrojovka-brno.cz/en/pages/341-history-of-the-company.aspx

[Askild AntonsenParticipant @askildantonsen75502]

I have forwarded my article in pdf to editor Neil Wyatt to have it presentet in this tread. I'm looking forward to seeing the article here too.

@ Cris Trice

I'm not shure if Webster, Wikipedia or other internett sources are correct in this case? That's why I'm investigating into this question. I beleive one has to go behind the digital wall to se int the sources and learn from them what is correct.

@Peter Lejune

It's most interesting what you have to tell. I have looked into the history and found references to Mr. Turpin stating EN is for England. With your statement I'm more confused than ever. It isn't easy to get a grip of the history when one and the same source is refered to have said to opposing things on the same topic.

@all

I haven't been looking into the acronym BREN. I am therefore not able to paricipate in the discussion on the interpretation or meaning of this. all I can say is that it's not possible to draw a siple line connecting the two even if they are verry similar.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hello all,

I have uploaded Askild's document on the STEN name.

I am no great authority, but my reading of the evidence is:

1) The name 'STEN' was partly chosen for conformity with the names of other automatic weapons.

2) The 'England' connexion was stressed by the inventors to underline their independence from Enfield.

Though the origin of the S and T is beyond doubt, perhaps the last two letters were effectively arbitrary, and we are arguing which of two 'backronyms' has priority, but I do think the fact it was presented to a parliamentary committee.long before the Enfield claim was made is pretty compelling.

Interesting that Turpin and Shepherd ended up in the same place as John Harrison, hundreds of years earlier, pleading for recompense for a great service to the Country.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

When I started High School, we had an army cadet scheme. Our platoon commander went off on a training course during the school holidays, and he got to training on the Sten Gun, his problems started when he picked it up, and fired it. Being left handed, that's how he held it, and emptied a magazine of cartridge cases up the sleeve of his overalls, which caused him to do a bit of a dance as he tried to get the hot cases away. When he got to school he still had the marks of the burns on his arm.

Ian S C

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

As a brief footnote:

television programme BBC2 06-May-2015 13:00 hrs "How we won the War" featured a visit to the BSA factory (which produced quite a few STENs), with some excellent photos.

MichaelG.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I reckon that "in the war"

There could be a bunch of guys who did stuff and made their own conclusions about stuff

and then there was the "government guys" who stated the official position

The bottom line being: both were correct

…and if we lost no-one was going to care anyway

BUT WE WON! thanks to the Russkies

So here we are, prevaricating over stuff that wasn't even that important to start with

Edited By Ady1 on 07/05/2015 01:06:47

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