Increasing Machine Base Weight

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Morning all,

I’m about to build a leveling base for my new milling machine and I would like to fill the box section with some kind of cost effective and heavy thing (sand or maybe concrete?) in order to make the base heavier.

The box section is 50x25mm with 3mm walls and will be around 2m used in total, so i can’t imagine the volume is going to be extremely large – around 1600 cubic cms

I don’t think it’s particularly necessary, but If there are any suggestions for anything suitable and not too expensive then I’d like to give it a go as I’d like to to be as heavy as possible.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Dry Sand would be good [provided it doesn’t stray into the machine]
Lead Shot would be great … if you can justify the cost.

MichaelG.

.

Ref. https://www.claygame.co.uk/lead-shot-pd11

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

I suspect the lead shot is a bit out of budget! The metal has been pricey enough…

There is no worry of getting any into the machine, I’m going to be welding end caps on and such, so it should be sealed. And the machine is on a cabinet anyway so it’s quite far away.

Do I need to worry about type of sand, or will something like this be fine?

https://www.diy.com/departments/tarmac-kiln-dried-paving-sand-large-bag-5m-/535484_BQ.prd?&&&&gclid=e140ce8a525011ed605ba8d48284e0e3&gclsrc=3p.ds&ds_rl=1272379&ds_rl=1272409&msclkid=e140ce8a525011ed605ba8d48284e0e3&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Merkle_Standard%20Shopping_All_Building_Building%20Part%201%20(Bing)&utm_term=4580702894397767&utm_content=1.%20BO%20-%20Building%201%20-%20Building%20Part%201-%20Broad%20Match

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Epoxy concrete is often used.

[Richard Kirkman 1]

On Richard Kirkman 1 Said:

[…]

There is no worry of getting any into the machine, I’m going to be welding end caps on and such, so it should be sealed. And the machine is on a cabinet anyway so it’s quite far away.

Do I need to worry about type of sand, or will something like this be fine?

[…]

That looks fit for purpose, Richard

… but you might want to skim through some of the Audiophile discussions

A search for dry sand for loudspeaker stands gives some useful hits.

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Since it is ‘summer’ you can get ordinary bricklaying sand and dry it in the sun if you can be ready for that one day per year.
Beach sand/bricklaying sand is roundish particles that flow over each other so will absorb vibration by moving and absorbing the energy.
Sharp sand for gardeners and also sold for building is crushed rock that binds together so forms a solid block even without cement.
Cheapest would be concrete aggregate of mixed sizes, with the occasional broken paver thrown in.
I suggest making a hatch at the bottom for removing it when you want to move the machine.

You could also just cast a concrete stand, or use 3’x2′ paving slabs with a steel frame to hold them. Or build in brick of concrete blocks.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Before we get too carried-away …

The opening post declares:

The box section is 50x25mm with 3mm walls and will be around 2m used in total, so i can’t imagine the volume is going to be extremely large – around 1600 cubic cms

MichaelG.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Thank you all so far.

Unfortunately epoxy concrete is a little out of price range too.

Very interesting with the speaker stands, not something I had considered before, but I’m not much of an audiophile!

I will get a bag of kiln dried sand and try that, it’s cheap and readily available. Judging from a sand volume to weight calculator, this is only going to add 2kg or so, so it may hardly be worth doing! Still, fun to experiment. I may try to cut up some steel offcuts and pop them in as well.

I’ll get the kiln dried sand and dry it out further too. I’ll also coat the inside of the frame with some sprayable rust proofing wax oil stuff that I got for my steel bike frame, so that should be another preventative measure.

As for the hatch at the bottom for removing the sand, it’s only going to be a small base, and it’ll have some very heavy duty leveling castors (rated for 1000kg) on the base as well.

It’ll make more sense once I get it made. It’s only a small milling machine (125kg) so it shouldn’t be a problem. I could do with the machine being a bit taller too as then I won’t have to lean down as much.

The base will also increase the footprint of the machine.

 

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

For the amount of sand you are going to get into that box section it is hardly worth worrying about.

As you are fitting those feet you would do better to have a couple of underslung brackets that span the width and are just clear of the floor and then you can either lay a couple of paving slabs onto the brackets or make up a box that can be filled with anything heavy, even come in handy bits of metal. You should then have a volume of around 100 (foot height) x 500 x 500 or more depending on O/A size of base so 15 times greater.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Thanks Jason, mounting a paving slab to the bottom is a great idea.

I’ll see if I can incorporate that into the design! Although I may need to make sure I have space for the Casters to spin and have access for the raise/lower ratchet mechanism. It could end up getting more complicated than I’d like for the extra weight, but i suppose it’s all already more complicated for hardly any extra weight!

Otherwise from some rough calculations I think the frame is going to weight around 15Kg (excluding Casters(which are quite heavy too))

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Mounting a milling machine on castors is something I would be very very careful about. They are notoriously top heavy, as many forklift drivers and inexperienced machine movers have learned. And more so if mounted on the common lightweight hobby sheet metal cabinet. Paving slab or three in bottom sounds like the way to go if you absolutely must be mobile, and fill the lower cabinet with your heaviest tooling, rotary tables, dividing heads, angle plates etc.

Proceed with caution, especially when table is at full extension in one direction, with dividing head perched on the end and you then have to yank on the draw bar to loosen a cutter holder etc.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Hi Hopper, thanks for the message, yes I have seriously considered that these machines are not meant to be on wheels.

Realistically this machine may be moved once or twice until I find where I am wanting to keep it in the garage. it will not be moved frequently.

I’m mainly using these casters as they have the option for leveling (the garage floor is not level) so consider them leveling feet rather than casters.

The cabinet will be full of all the attachments and accessories.

If anything, with the base i am making, it will increase the footprint and ensure that it is level.

Once again, it is a small milling machine (Amadeal AMA25LV), not dealing with a Bridgeport here. I understand the risks and i think they are not going to be an issue for my use.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Richard Kirkman 1, if you are using only swivelling casters, you need to make sure that the centre of the wheels, are outside the footprint of your machine, when they are pointing towards each other, although I prefer the whole of the wheels to be outside the footprint, and it doesn’t hurt if they are a bit more than that. As far as spraying rust proofing inside your box sections, if you are welding end caps on each end, you are not really going to gain anything, as once it’s sealed up, rusting of any significate amount will stop once the oxygen inside is used up.

Regards Nick.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

Hi Nick,

Yes, the casters do swivel and will be outside of the footprint. It will become apparent when I get the metal tomorrow and start making the thing. The metal I have purchased is slightly larger than I initially planned, so I will make the base as big as I can from it, to increase stability.

Yes, I’m sure the rust proofing is going to do absolutely nothing, but I have a massive can of the stuff, so I’m going to do it anyway. At least then i don’t need to worry if there is a little bit of moisture still in the sand. Also, my welding may not quite be oxygen tight! I would hope so, but cannot assume it to be.

The whole thing is overkill anyway, so i may as well!

Cheers

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Richard, if you are getting kiln dried sand, I’ll don’t think there will be much moisture in it, unless there is a split or holes in the bag, and I doubt that you would get it any dryer yourself.

Regards Nick.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Double your money by using the castors only at the back and use a trolley jack to lift the front only when you need to move it. The other castors can then be used on another machine. Once you have provided a bigger footprint for stability the best place for the paving slab is at the top under the drip tray.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

No problem Nick, I won’t bother then. I’ve just always seen my dad dry out his sand before using it so I assumed I would do the same. However, i think he was using sharp sand, not kiln dried. So it makes sense not to bother.

 

Bazyle, that is a good idea, but I’ve paid for the castors already so i may as well use them, and my other light duty woodworking machinery doesn’t really need this kind of castor. So I’ll stick to using all 4.

Fingers crossed the metal should be ready for collection today, so i can make a start on the frame.

(edit-metal email says tomorrow, so won’t be able to collect until Monday, so slightly delayed)

Most of the tooling for the mill has arrived as well, so I’m itching to make my first chips!

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Using dry sand has one advantage over concrete, it can be removed if you change your mind or sell or move the machine. If you use concrete, then it would be better to add only a couple of inches at a time, filling the whole cavity at once might bulge out the sides. Concrete would be heavier than sand.

[Richard Kirkman 1Participant @richardkirkman1]

All done. Very happy with how it turned out, i do wish I’d made it slightly larger, but the mill is very secure when the feet are down, and is very easy to move otherwise.

Adding the sand did help overall, but minimally as expected. I didn’t get around to weighing the stand, but it was not easy to move around.

Having used the mill now, it is at a much better working height for me.

Thank you all for the advice!

[Author]

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