In flight social distancing

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Hi. – A tea room question..

I note from the Ryanair website video that social distancing (re Covid 19) is to be maintained pre and post flight, but there is no specific mention of social distancing actually being maintained while seated within the aircraft.

I am curious to know if ‘in flight’ social distancing is maintained during the flight (which means that passenger numbers are substantially under capacity) Can anybody advise?

Best regards. A.

Edited By Alan Donovan on 16/10/2020 04:46:27

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

I think that the co-pilot is now seated towards the rear of the plane.

[Alan CharlestonParticipant @alancharleston78882]

Hi,

I get Emails from a crowd called Innocentive every so often. They ask for solutions to problems for organisations and pay for any ideas which are used. A couple of days ago I got the following:

" This Challenge is looking for an original layout design of commercial airplane cabins mixing both passengers and cargo in such a way that social distancing between passengers is guaranteed through the positioning of air cargo as barriers between passengers. "

So I guess one way of getting social distancing is to have a crate replacing every second seat. Not a bad idea really as there is a shortage of air freight capacity as a lot of it went in the hold of passenger aircraft.

On the bright side there won't be any disputes over who gets to use the armrests as crates tend not to have arms.

Regards,

Alan

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Given that the air in every modern passenger plane is continually recirculated during flight … the very concept of Social Distancing seems to be a non-starter.

My working hypothesis is that all available virus will be near-equally distributed amongst all occupants.

Is there any reasonable evidence to disprove this ?

MichaelG.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/10/2020 07:00:14:

Given that the air in every modern passenger plane is continually recirculated during flight … the very concept of Social Distancing seems to be a non-starter.

My working hypothesis is that all available virus will be near-equally distributed amongst all occupants.

Is there any reasonable evidence to disprove this ?

MichaelG.

I posit that this depends on the capacity of the cabin compressor system: enough air change/ventilation would reduce viral load.The obvious alternatives would be things like providing effective filtering masks or individual filtered air systems but all such options require investment and the usual safety tests.

pgk

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

look at https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases and follow up their experience as they give the travel history of those entering NZ and are found to be covid positive – there does appear to be some connection as they follow up seating arrangement.

Edited By Frances IoM on 16/10/2020 07:32:06

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

When we booked with Jet 2 some time ago for a flight next April , the seating available to pre order were. Left 3 seats , 2 out of 3 available. Right 3 seats 1 available. Giving 3 out of 6 on each row. Not sure if this has changed.

Steve.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I would get the proper flu about every 4-5 years in my job as it spread through the general population but this thing is like the measles, the entire population gets it in 12 to 18 months if they don't pull the plug on society

So IMO it's a superspreader version

[Martin CargillParticipant @martincargill50290]

I'm just back from Turkey (currently self isolating) The Jet2 flight on the way out was full with not a spare seat on the plane……..

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Cabin air flows from front to back so you can seat people by age and vulnerability. Overweight people should walk to their destination.

[WearyParticipant @weary]

I travelled on British Airways twice during September, London – Milan.

On both occasions every seat was occupied. Masks obligatory except when eating or drinking. We could not leave seats at any time (i.e. to go to toilets or move around) without permission of cabin-crew. We were 'boarded' un 'un-boarded' in groups of rows to reduce congestion on the aircraft.

Phil

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is dated March 2005 but does give a little encouragement: **LINK**

https://www.ehstoday.com/industrial-hygiene/article/21912062/simulation-explores-spread-of-virus-in-an-airplane

My ‘working hypothesis’ however, remains as stated

MichaelG.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

The following link might be helpful **LINK**

but the contributors are no more qualified, medically, than your average Joe Public.

rgds

Bill

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Just a bit of info from the UK Government website.

Stay safe, be kind.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Luckily my wife won’t fly and as I have retired I won’t be making any work related flights. My wife has never been a happy flier and since the children were born she has refused. We have explored Europe by car since which is quite pleasant if you balance driving with nice overnight stops en route. Motoring may get more popular while this situation persists.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 16/10/2020 10:11:51

[Keith HaleParticipant @keithhale68713]

Just got back from Mallorca using Ryanair both ways. Despite about 30% capacity there was no social distancing immediately prior to boarding, on board or upon disembarking. We were able to change seats.

Despite the mandatory wearing of masks at all times, the purchase of a drink or sandwich negates this!

The extra travel documentation required (for track and trace) is examined on the outbound flight because it is checked at Palma. No document= no entry = potential problem for Ryanair (?)

The extra documentation is not checked leaving Mallorca. It is not checked at Manchester. No potential problem for the airline!

There are still the hardy, brave and invincible ones traveling who defy any mandatory regulations. They look as if they would deck anyone who challenges that invincibility. They go unchallenged.

Want to stay safe?

It's all down to you.

Thanks for asking, yes we enjoyed our break despite now being stuck in the house for another 10 days and awaiting food and wine deliveries. We are planning a return for Christmas and New Year. It will definitely not be with Ryanair and we will keep ourselves safe.. No one else will.

Didn't we hear that the filters on an aircraft air-conditioning system were capable of removing a virus from the atmosphere?

Ifthat is the case, why do Ryanair no longer have price lists or issue receipts? Cost cutting?

Keith

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Hello again.

Thank you all for your views and input to my question, a very interesting read.

Best regards to all & stay safe.

Alan.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 16/10/2020 07:00:14:

Given that the air in every modern passenger plane is continually recirculated during flight … the very concept of Social Distancing seems to be a non-starter.

My working hypothesis is that all available virus will be near-equally distributed amongst all occupants.

Is there any reasonable evidence to disprove this ?

MichaelG.

The chances of contracting the virus through recirculated air is very slim if not next to impossible. The cabin air distribution system circulates air from the top of the cabin through riser ducts above your head and is extracted at floor level from at the lower sidewall panels. The air is then routed into a mixer unit where it is filtered through a HEPA filter and mixed with outside conditioned air. That said, this does not mean that if the person sitting next to you has covid and sneezes into your face you will not catch the virus! But most probably you will be better off if you route a flex pipe from the overhead gasper into your mouth and breath directly the recirculated air!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

You are, of course, perfectly entitled to express your opinion, Chris … but I can’t see it as a specific response to my question, so I’m not sure why you quoted me.

MichaelG.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

What I meant to say is that recirculated air on an airplane should not have any effect on the social distancing concept as it does not contribute to the spread of the virus.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Does an aircraft HEPA filter filter down to virus particle size? Are they changed often enough or cudl they end up 'charged' with virus?

pgk

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by pgk pgk on 16/10/2020 13:22:08:

Does an aircraft HEPA filter filter down to virus particle size? Are they changed often enough or cudl they end up 'charged' with virus?

pgk

They do, and are changed routinely according to the time interval specified in the maintenance program.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Masks, filters and separation all help reduce the risk but anything that increases contact between people makes the problem worse.  Not just on the aircraft, but exposure goes up in the airport and travelling to and from it. And somewhere along the line there's always the chance of rubbing shoulders with a bozo who refuses to wear a mask. I don't care if the BF catches Covid himself, I do object to him spreading it. Off with their g**lies.

Varies by region, but R is up to 1.5 in the UK at the moment and rising. Much the same abroad – there's a second wave in progress. I'd need a very good reason to travel by air at the moment. Certainly not for pleasure!

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 16/10/2020 14:46:33

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just found this … New Improved, etc. **LINK**

http://www.filtrationcontrol.com/?gclid=CjwKCAjwiaX8BRBZEiwAQQxGxyzbNw_VWoyfP0rzRNyr-zpzlz17CsCtGnDSot3l1tXLN_T4MLVv8RoCsWoQAvD_BwE

This one claims 99.99% instead of the more usual 99.97% but I still don’t really understand what the number means

… by weight, by volume, by number … ?

Covid 19 virus is very small, so this point of clarification is important.

MichaelG.

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