I’m making D reamers on a ML8 please help me get a proper lathe!

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

Hi. I make wooden things for a living, and do a lot of work with non-ferrous. I'm finally going to get myself a "proper" lathe, I'm thinking ML7 size. I need a distance between centres of at least 19".

I have a question – is it possible to have the headstock stationary, and use the lathe motor to move the carriage from side to side to cut keyways in hardwood? My hands get v tired moving the compound slide around on the ML8. If it is possible, is it possible on a ML7?

The ML8 is cutting the slots slightly uphill, which is no good.

The other thing I need an engineering lathe for is making tapered (mainly) reamers. I'd also stop turning my brass on the ML8, although it does work surprisingly well for this with the compound slide, and I have made accurate conical reamers from mild steel too.

I missed out on a ML4 though tbf I thought it was just a bit too old skool. That was £310. I can't really go higher than a £1k, which would have to be for a solid machine needing little or no work.

I'm not buying new, also can't be a massive heavy thing.

What should I look at?

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Powered feed on a lathe is normally driven by the rotation of the spindle and therefore a chuck fitted to the spindle will rotate as well. There are a few ways to overcome this for your needs, mount the workpiece between centres and use a clamp to stop it from moving (omit the lathe dog that would usually be used to turn the workpiece) is the simplest. Alternatives are to adapt the lathe with something like the electronic leadscrew (ELS) or to go full CNC. I think the second two are probably something you don't want to do.

Martin C

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Sam,

One way I might do as you are asking is to power the leadscrew alone, probably better done with a second drive and leave the headstock un-powered. It isn't difficult to isolate the gearing up to the headstock, just take one of the linking gears out when you run things that way.

The new drive could also be readily arranged so that you still retain the option of using the lathe as the makers intended.

Regards

Brian

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A lathe with backgear can usually isolate the spindle from the leadscrew, and if you can lock the spindle, you're halfway there. A lot of Myfords have a handwheel on the right hand end of the leadscrew. The requirement for 19" between centres is more of a problem, I'm not sure about that.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

You are a woodworker so must have a battery screwdriver that you no longer use because your newer battery drill is used instead. Put something like a tuning fork in the chuck and engage that with holes hopefully present in the handle of the topslide/compound you are currently using. A more powerful equivalent will do for the leadscrew drive on a bigger lathe. You are also likely to want to have an indexing arrangement on the main mandrel for making multiple flutes, like a router lathe.

Most of the cheaper lathes are fairly short, only just able to do your 19in requirement and although some long bed versions are available they are much sought after. However you may be able to invent a cantilevered tailstock that extends the effective length for lower precision work.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

A ML4 should do what you want, BUT the leadscrew dial graduations are not Thous! 80 divisions on a dial on a 12 tpi leadscew.

For 19" centres you would be looking for a ML7, with its attendant price premium.

A far eastern import would probably do the same job for less.

A Boxford or Raglan would do the job quite well also.

Depends on what features you want, and how much you are prepared to pay.

WWIW, your horizons are likely to expand once you have a machine and become familiar with it, so choose something that seems a little bigger or more complicated than you think at the moment.

Howard

[DalboyParticipant @dalboy]

For the keyway in the hardwood why not make a jig and use a wood router to cut it should not be too difficult.

[DanielParticipant @daniel]

Perhaps a milling machine may be more adapted to yor needs

ATB,

Daniel

[Rob McSweeneyParticipant @robmcsweeney81205]

Hi Sam,

If you are not familiar with matalworking lathes, can I recommend that you get hold of a copy of – "The Amateur's Lathe," by L.H.Sparey, readily available on Ebay and elsewhere, first published probably 75 years ago now but still an excellent primer in small lathes and their use.

As regards the slot cutting (and I know what the job is btw) you will not need a power feed, racking the carriage to and fro with the carriage handwheel will suffice. For shorter slots (up to perhaps 2" long) you may well be able to rig a lever across the face of the handwheel which will make things very comfortable. I can't remember where, but there is at least one video on Youtube showing this operation.

Happy lathe hunting!

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

Hi folks. Thanks for all that.

Rob – I am currently racking the compound slide to and fro, and there's a lot of resistance. I have a 3mm cutter that I have backed off all round so it doesn't bind – it produces an excellent result without any of the worry I'd have from using a powered cutter. Thanks for the book recommendation, I'll read. I have used metal lathes a bit but certainly am short of knowledge.

Daniel – I want to make reamers, and turn brass, so a milling machine is no good. Also, clamping the work in a way that makes it easy to turn is tricky.

Derek – not advisable…

Howard – when you say far eastern import, what model are you thinking of? Clarke stuff?

Bazyle – I have thought about powering the slide, but the ML8 is cutting slightly wonky so I need a more precise lathe anyway. I don't actually use screws in my work (maybe 8 a year…) but for arcane reasons I have 4 identical Hitachi battery drills so I can deffo spare one!

old mart – I thought this last night, if I stop halfway through engaging the backgear on a ML7 the headstock is disconnected from the drive aye? Will it hurt it to run like this?

Brian – thanks. might make sense to do that.

Martin – yes I suppose I could use a revolving centre without a taper (if such a thing exists, or turn the taper away) in the headstock chuck, and any old thing in the tailstock, in fact I could clamp the workpiece at the tailstock end. Thanks to google I now know what a lathe dog is…

So ML7 then? ML7R? There doesn't seem any point in getting a super 7, never mind that I can't afford it.

The only other think I may use the lathe for is keeping the old Lister 5.1 CS working, but I can still buy parts so that's not a big deal.

Thanks again, Sam

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

You might want to look at an SC4 which allows you to do this (because in some markets a milling attachment is available that uses the table power feed, requiring the spindle to be disconnected – there's a big knob on the front of the headstock).

Old style mini lathes can do this as well, as they have a high/low/neutral lever.

I would want to use a powered cutter though, to keep the load on the leadscrew sensible.

Neil

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Sam Lawrence on 25/02/2020 09:40:24:

…

So ML7 then? ML7R? There doesn't seem any point in getting a super 7, never mind that I can't afford it.

…

Sounds like Sam needs a lathe AND a milling machine. Side to side key-ways are easy meat for a milling machine because work is moved on a table under a fixed cutter. Much less manual effort than the same job on a lathe, and it's not difficult to motorise the table traverses. If only one key-way is needed, the job can be fixed to the table. Otherwise, it can be held in a rotary table and turned accurately to any angle needed. You will probably need a tailstock, also illustrated on the Warco page linked above. (Many other vendors available.)

Milling machines are rather like routers, except the work is clamped to a moveable table. But metalworking tools aren't ideal for woodwork because their spindle speeds are on the slow side. Nonetheless a small Far Eastern milling machine would do what you need – cutting wood isn't hard work compared with steel.

Before small milling machines were readily available chaps adapted lathes to cut slots etc just as you describe. Certainly works, but milling operations on a lathe are hard work and time-consuming. If you can afford one and have the space a milling machine is a far better tool for slotting. Also possible to use a mill as a lathe though I wouldn't recommend it!

Finally, if a metalworking lathe or milling machine is ever used to cut wood take care to clean up thoroughly. Sawdust collects oil, water and swarf: neglected, it damages precision tools due to rust, abrasion, and wedging the slides, gears and motor. (Metal-working requires much more accuracy than wood and they are vulnerable compared with machines designed for wood-working.)

Sam's main problem is his budget. £1000 doesn't give much wriggle room, new or second-hand. Ideally, he wants a Wood-lathe (the ML8), plus a small (19", not tiny) metal lathe, and a mill. I don't see much point in going Myford, because they attract relatively high prices.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Instead of racking the carriage back and forth you can convert the top slide into a slot cutter pretty easily. All it takes is remove the top slide feed screw and set up a long handled lever that pivots on a tower sticking up from the rear T slot in the cross slide and is attached with a link to the moveable top slide by bolting to the toolpost. Much easier than racking the carriage. You could even conceivably motorize the top slide with a stepper motor or motor and crank etc.

Or for wood, get a cheap router motor with integral collets and fit a cutter and mount it on the toolpost and use it to rout/mill the slot instead.

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

This is what I'm actually doing, there can be up to 8 key slots on a chanter. I really don't like the idea of having to do this on a mill – I do possess the ability to mill and do cut slots in drone reed bodies using a cross slide on the substantial pillar drill. I know a milling machine is more accurate than this, but the clamping problem remains the same.

A milling machine would be useful for removing the stock on the D reamers, but not essential.

I can't see how I'd fix even a laminate cutter here and have the bit at centre height. Other makers I think use a dremel, or the remote flexy thing and mount that.

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

Those rotary tables are neat, but it's all ££ especially with a decent mill.

I am happy with my method though, I just need more accuracy. And to be able to work metal with more accuracy.

I also sort of like the idea of threading mounts like my old 18th C set, see I'm already rowing back on my pledge not to need screw cutting!

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

When my hands are sore, I start the slot, then saw slightly inwards on both sides and knock that bit out – this leaves the tool v little work to do and I could maybe then remove the feed screw if I always did that.

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

**LINK**

This is the sort of thing I'm looking at.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Here's another way of convertiing your topslide into a slot cutter.

More detials here http://www.myford-lathes.com/accessories30.html

Edited By Hopper on 25/02/2020 11:15:33

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Sam, you made mention of an old Lister 5.1 CS, my interest was sparked as I am also into stationary engines, have a Lister A and D under refurb, bit of a long term project, do you use your CS for any working purpose or just for enjoyment.
Dave W

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

The CS powers us when there is no sun or wind, also powers things like a compressor that make the inverter cringe. It drives a 5k AC generator

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Sam,

Now that you've posted a picture to clarify what you are trying to acheive, I'll throw in my suggestion. Wouldn't something like this be a solution:

Spindle

mounted horizontally to the cross slide or topslide at centre height and traversed longitudinally with the carriage leadscrew or even manually using the cross slide handwheel?

I think you mentioned 3mm slots, so it should easily cope with that and the advertised speed would be ideal for use on wood at those dimensions. You would of course end up with round-ended slots, but that 's not to say they couldn't be squared off, if that is what is required?

John

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Sam thanks for that info, good to hear of a CS working for its living and doing what it was designed for, dreamt of going off grid, have solar and limited battery capacity but senior management vetoed the idea of a generator being included in the mix, working on the idea of a wind generator, we live in a coastal area so plenty of wind. Objective of totally off grid is probably unrealistic but was seemed a good idea, anyway we are certainly saving money with our solar setup.
Dave W

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Similar to John Hinkley's comment above, but with most of the engineering already done.

Do a search for Bosch PFF500a router. There was also a slightly smaller blue model, 350??

The router body/motor has a standard collar size and will also fit drill stands.

I made a flat plate to fit in the toolpost of my Myford to take the router body, so I could use it as a basic toolpost grinder, but there's nothing to stop you using a normal woodworking router bit.

Bill

[Sam LawrenceParticipant @samlawrence90272]

John – I can't find any stats for the chuck max-min on that, wonder if it would take a 4mm cutter (I occasionally use 4mm) but otherwise it looks ideal. My problem with that sort of thing is that it has to get the cut EXACTLY right, I'm sometimes letting in 3mm sheet which must be a good fit, slightly interfering until I polish the key. If a rotary cutter cuts slightly baggy slots, or wanders on entry, that is a big no no.

If there was a way of winding it up and down that'd be ideal as I could cut at 2.5mm and then finish.

I have thought about a fast spinning metal thing method but I'm concerned that the slots would be less accurate.

 

Oh and Google is not my friend for the bosch router, no results

Edited By Sam Lawrence on 25/02/2020 12:46:07

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