Ideal amateur lathe spindle nose?

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Hi Niels,

An MT5 taper should be 37.465mm at the small end, so there should be adequate clearance for sporter and most target barrels.

Average rifle barrel lengths go up to 24", and target barrels as long as 26". Headstocks vary in size, so If you are going to set up an outboard chuck, then figure your measurement from the outside end of the jaws on the chuck, through the headstock, and to a point where your steady rest will support the longest barrel you think you might work on, and then add enough bed length for the tailstock to remain in place.

A 26-27mm headstock bore should be ok for most tapered sporter barrels.

Hope this helps.

Best regards, Mike

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Mike E. on 20/06/2018 10:42:59:

A 26-27mm headstock bore should be ok for most tapered sporter barrels.

 

Best regards, Mike

 

 

Thank You Mike.

My planned WM210 uptodating can have a 27 mm bore spindle with taper for ER40 collets and screw on thread using the ER40 locking ring .

The collection of kit parts is almost complete:

 

 

This produce  surplus:

 

The parts have only done the flange slimming .

Are there enough spares around , can they be used or are they scrap food?

Coming from and going back to China.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 21/06/2018 20:39:43

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Not sure about the spare parts, but my school of thought is that if you have the room, box them up and store them away for awhile until you are sure that they won't be needed. When reselling any machine in the future, usually potential buyers will want all the original parts; I know I would.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Mike E. on 22/06/2018 09:59:58:

Not sure about the spare parts, but my school of thought is that if you have the room, box them up and store them away for awhile until you are sure that they won't be needed. When reselling any machine in the future, usually potential buyers will want all the original parts; I know I would.

Hello Mike

My lathe creations will not be easy to sell and I do not have a lot of room..

The Younger people do not know how to use them and chinese lathes are cheap and plenty .

My next canvas will be the smaller version

**LINK**

 

It has been very easy to dismantle headstock and it will be easy as wel to put in a much more rigid spindle.

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/06/2018 16:05:29

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 23/06/2018 16:13:03

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

I have made a new design for WM180 and 210 lathes:

Upper is standard MT3 and lower is for new ER40 collets.

The front bearing goes from type 30206 (30*62*17.25) to 32908 (40*62*15mm).

Beaty is that no housing modification is needed

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

My toolmaker friend has fallen in love with my former WM210 lathe and is blueprinting it.

I have bought a WM180 and will get it on friday.

He thinks he can rebore the front bearing hole in headstocks from present 62 mm to 72 mm diameter.

In that case a 50*72*15 mm tapered bearing will enable an ER50 spindle.

I want to keep the rear inner diameter of 20.5 mm to avoid the temptation to do water pipe threading and worse.

Lathes are only 60 kg.

Picture shows present ,ER40 and ER50 versions

Waste of money maybe but more fun than TV.

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Niels,

Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I have a feedback for you. The torque required to tighten ER50 collet's is considerable. Especially squeezing them down to the lower end of their 2mm closing range. This is based on my own experiments with some second hand regofix ER50 28mm, 30mm, and 32mm collets and a regofix ER50 ball bearing nut. you will need a very secure spindle lock on your design. Oversize collets are available for ER40 utpo 30mm. Something to think about.

I have recently come in to ownership of a small hardinge UM mill from the 1940's. Saved from the scrap man. Unfortunately this "lucky" find comes with a 5C (!!!!) horizontal mill spindle and no tooling. I am looking to design and make a new 30 taper spindle for it. So please keep posting your thoughts!

Steve

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Hello Steve

Thank You for a very good advice:

Old men do not have the power for ER50.

My experience is ER25 and pleasant, but ER50 is four to eigth times more demanding.

Had not thougth of that.Will try ER40 then

The eigth radial holes on thickest part of my phantasy spindles are for locking during chuck and collet nut handling.

The Hardinge UM looks very nice.Do You have a parts list picture?

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

A WM180 travelled all the way to Poland and then to 50 meter from my door.

The danish/arian looking driver dropped it by accident and left very fast.

I have to wait with an absolutely scrap lathe in my small appartment to sometime next week .

Time for reflection evidently.

The bigger inside,same outside diameter frontbearing make a more usefull spindle possible.

All the mini lathes has the same 62 mm bearing hole as far as I can deduct.It can also benefit 918,RedBull ,Siegs etc and the manufacture of new style spindle is not more costly than the present versions.It can still fix the standard3 and 4 jaws plus faceplates and I like the flange mounting after widening the gap 5 mm.

Please look at it and tell me if there is something wrong or impossible.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 31/08/2018 18:35:41

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

FWIW I recently made a camlock nose for the 4th axis of my milling machine, to match the one on my lathe.

http://bodgesoc.blogspot.com/2017/05/harmonic.html

I think that boring the holes in the right places would be something of a challenge in most home workshops. In fact I think that I would have struggled to make a complete spindle with integral nose. Boring the axial holes with the full length of the spindle behind the face would exceed the capacity of my mill in vertical mode. I might have been able to do it in horizontal mode.

Some significant trouble can be saved by buying the actual cams rather than making them.

These are quite inexpensive:

http://www.gatemachinery.com/product/cam-d1-4

 

Edited By Andy Pugh on 11/09/2018 11:03:38

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Mike E. on 18/06/2018 10:10:38:

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 06/03/2018 11:37:31:

Thank You for all comments and advices.

My son wants the lathe for gun and outboard work ,so a bigger spindle is a must.

………………………….

For barrel precision barrel fitting and chamber work, its ideal to have a suitable outboard 4-jaw chuck on the tail end of the headstock, along with a rigid attachment point for an indicator so that you can index the bore with a pin gage. Indexing both headstock and steady ends within .0003 before chambering should give you sub minute of angle capability.

Excuse me for reviving an old thread.

It is planned to get a new 700$ lathe and rebuild it with a 50mm hole spindle and I want to incorporate such a spider/extra chuck/adjuster or whatever.

Can someone point me to a picture of such an animal?

Lathe looks somthing like this:

Big Bore 8*16 lathe

and the new spindle something like this:

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

This is the general idea, Niels : **LINK**

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/lathe-spider-chuck.5619/

… effectively, you are using the whole of the spindle like a watchmaker’s bell-chuck on steroids !!

See here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/george-adams/page12.html

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/11/2019 20:30:42

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/11/2019 20:26:54:

This is the general idea, Niels : **LINK**

https://forum.snipershide.com/threads/lathe-spider-chuck.5619/

… effectively, you are using the whole of the spindle like a watchmaker’s bell-chuck on steroids !!

See here: **LINK**

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 07/11/2019 20:30:42

Hello Michael

That was exactly what I needed to go on with my living room oilfield lathe.

Thank You very much

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If you were designing a lathe chuck mounting for a small to medium lathe, the screw thread takes a lot of beating. At the design stage, a positive spindle lock and a locking device for running safely in reverse would not be difficult to include. My second choice would be a variation of the bolt on flange which the mini lathes have, but with more room between the headstock and the rear of the spindle flange. The type with the keyholes in a loose plate has a lot going for it in terms of easy chuck changing.

I think the camlock system is more suitable for larger machines.

Edited By old mart on 08/11/2019 16:50:08

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by old mart on 08/11/2019 16:47:10:

If you were designing a lathe chuck mounting for a small to medium lathe, the screw thread takes a lot of beating. At the design stage, a positive spindle lock and a locking device for running safely in reverse would not be difficult to include. My second choice would be a variation of the bolt on flange which the mini lathes have, but with more room between the headstock and the rear of the spindle flange. The type with the keyholes in a loose plate has a lot going for it in terms of easy chuck changing.

I think the camlock system is more suitable for larger machines.

Edited By old mart on 08/11/2019 16:50:08

I have come to the conclusion after reading the late,great John Stevenson and having done some practical tests my self, that my chucks will be fastened with three or four M6 or M8 screws from front.

Short and very rigid.

Extreme accuracy by machining spindle register on site

For my former 30mm hole spindle it should have been made like this:

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 08/11/2019 19:10:29

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 08/11/2019 19:31:29

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

And for my next 50mm hole spindle something like this

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Most three jaw rear mounting scroll chucks can have the holes drilled through to the front. If the original holes are 8mm, then drill them 6.2 through to the front and counterbore them for 6mm SHCS. You will find that is is possible to drill another three holes on the same pcd, usually so all the holes are spaced at 60 degrees, ( check first though for space). SIX holes are plenty for your threaded flange. Four jaw independent chucks are commonly front fixing and would be easier.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

My latest 8*16 import lathe spindle phantasy:

Buy one of these.:

38mm bore lathe

 

and two 32912 bearings and make a spindle with 50mm hole and max88mm nose as picture.

You cannot buy suitable 3 or 4 jaw chucks with 50mm hole and is not really needed either.

Everything round up to 38mm is handled with ER collets.

Bigger and square by Harold Halls very nice faceplate /clamp combination.

Overhang is short and bending stiffnes between bearings is 65 for a 30/20mm ,201 for the 45/38mm as bougth and 671 for the ultimate 60/50mm shown.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 03/12/2019 18:37:30

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 03/12/2019 18:39:12

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Having a tight tapered fitting is fine in theory, but allowing a small amount of radial adjustment means you can fine tune the runout to zero.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by old mart on 03/12/2019 19:13:15:

Having a tight tapered fitting is fine in theory, but allowing a small amount of radial adjustment means you can fine tune the runout to zero.

That does not seemed to have bothered the likes of Hardinge who also have their collet taper machined directly into the spindle bore.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

So do a lot of lathes, including Smart & Brown, they rely on the collets being perfect.

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