I need to cut chamfers into x64 pieces of mild steel – any advice?

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

• Given you have invented your new product some similar ingenuity applied to designing the production method would be a good idea. Usually any product designer would consider the manufacturing method as a design constraint.
• If you don't do it by hand, either the mitre will have to be milled or ground – people have described how you could do the job either way.
• Since it's clearly not cost effective to buy a mill for this one job I think an abrasive disc machine is more likely to do the job for you. As Howard suggests setting up a mitred clamping jig and a fence to control the depth is the way to go. You have shown one of the blanks sitting in a vee block – how could it be clamped in that position (hint – consider a round bar clamped in the vee to hold it)? How could you then use the vee block as a jig (hint – run the fence in the groove machined in the side of the block)? Think carefully about the risks and work safely.
• Is the chamfer essential, could the design be modified to work without it?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Pity you did not get them cut by a company with a tilting head laser as they could have done one edge at 45deg. If made 8.2mm wide you would only be faced with flattening the knife edge by 0.2mm and that would be at right angles to the flat face so easier to deal with.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I quite like the look of this chamfering attachment, which might be suitable for your needs.

Links to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRioQ8Vq_tk

Rob

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 03/09/2021 16:22:40:

[…]

Like I said, I have been using diamond hone, but it's too slow. To speed things up I have been using a hand file first but great care is required and ultimately it's still too slow.
 

.

Are you aware that diamond hones are available in various grit-sizes ?

… and that diamond files are also available ?

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/09/2021 08:18:34

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 03/09/2021 14:35:44:

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

Put one on parallels in a vice with a vice stop for location. Cut the edge with a 45° chamfering cutter. Repeat until finished.

Martin C

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

In my mind, 64 isn't that many. You would develop a really useful skill if you were 'mindful' while you did the task. It is possible to find statisfaction in the task itself such that you will be dissapointed at the end when there are no more left to do. I'd mark out each carefully then hand file wit the part in a handvice supported against a jewellers peg. Maybe use a very simple jig and diamond stone at the end but a file will get you very close.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

John

This will be my final post on this thread … I am genuinely trying to help, but it is clearly not appreciated.

Here’s a direct quote from the page that I linked yesterday:

Most sharpening can be performed by a fine 600 grit diamond. This has the abrasive ability to effectively sharpen a dull knife in less than a minute and bring the edge to a keen razor finish. When your job requires a surface that will sharpen quickly, but still leave a high-quality finish, we offer a medium 400 grit diamond. For those who wish to get the job done fast but are still interested in a good quality finish, try a coarse 250 grit diamond (for sharpening axes, shovels, garden tools, industrial shop tools and de-burring applications). For very fast metal removal try our extra coarse 150 grit diamond for roughing in or prepping for the final finish. Extra coarse grit is available on all flat tools. To achieve the ultimate in a polished finish try our Superfine 1200 grit diamond surface. Ideally suited for woodworking and industrial application where only perfection is tolerated. We also offer several specialist diamond sharpening tools, which include chain saw sharpeners, needle files, and flat hand files, and oval sharpeners.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 04/09/2021 08:53:58

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

My 2 penny worth, mill if you can or organise a filing set up, I think there is too much metal to remove using diamond laps/hones.

Tony

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 04/09/2021 08:15:52:

Are you aware that diamond hones are available in various grit-sizes ?

I did enquire as to the grit yesterday Michael and suggested a coarser one or using something similar to the "scary sharp" method to remove the majority of metal

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I can see a job for a shaper here

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by bernard towers on 04/09/2021 11:20:57:

I can see a job for a shaper here

wasn't there an existing lack of tools/experience and a small budget?

Which makes buying a £100 belt sander, then using it and a few minutes to make a jig the way to go. It also means that the job provides a useful tool for other jobs. The OP could be done before dinner.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

From another thread…

**LINK**

I think the OP has plenty of advice now, I suggest he makes a choice of method and has a go and reports back.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 04/09/2021 11:47:03:

Posted by bernard towers on 04/09/2021 11:20:57:

I can see a job for a shaper here

wasn't there an existing lack of tools/experience and a small budget?

Which makes buying a £100 belt sander, then using it and a few minutes to make a jig the way to go. It also means that the job provides a useful tool for other jobs. The OP could be done before dinner.

The parts have holes in them, so coach bolts and wing nuts will make swapping them quicker. And at only 16mm long, the jig could easily hold two at a time.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It seems we are all in agreement that some form of jig is the best way to go with the amount to be made but I fear Brian may have a job making a jig. He was not able to cut bits of metal to 8 x 16 or put the holes in them after long threads on the subjects and has ended up getting them laser cut so a jig may be a challenge with the tools he has or more likely does not have.

If he buys the proxxon it can be used to make a jig with a step to act as a fence, drill the holes for screws or dowels and finally machine the chamfer, can't do all that with manual or mechanical abrasives alone

[FarmboyParticipant @farmboy]

Posted by JasonB on 04/09/2021 13:37:42:

… He was not able to cut bits of metal to 8 x 16 or put the holes in them after long threads on the subjects and has ended up getting them laser cut …

Looking back to the original posting, I would suggest the laser cutters didn't make such a great job either. They don't look like 8 x 16 to me

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That could be why its taking so long to get them down to size with a diamond stone

I think 16 x 13 was mentioned in another thread and that looks about right going by the cutting mat.

[MadMikeParticipant @madmike]

As usual a lot of great ideas about how to go about chamfering these plates. However nobody has asked a very fundamental question, unless I have missed it in which case please ignore this message, but just what equipment has the original poster got access to?

Milling can of course be carried out on a lathe, and a small mill is more than capable of producing this small chamfer. A vice with a wooden fixture tilted at 45 degrees as somebody suggested is a simple solution that would work on a lathe or a mill. This is a classic case of offering solutions with insufficient information. Come on guys if you want to be engineers, you have to think and act like engineers.

So in summary mr original poster……..what exaxctly have you got in the way of machines etc?

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

My 2 cents worth, take the bits to the nearest jobbing machine shop and get them milled at 45 degrees, failing that find your local model engineering club and ask if someone can machine them if you make a donation to club funds. It seems to me that you don’t have a clue as to what you are doing so give the job to someone competent to do it.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Thank you so much for all your suggestions. I shall ignore the patronising/snide remarks.

Sorry for delay. I have been away.

> Pity you did not get them cut by a company with a tilting head laser
> as they could have done one edge at 45deg.

I asked around and everyone seemed to say it was 'impossible' (at anything close to a sensible cost). Does such a thing even exist if so who (in the UK) offers this service?

> So in summary mr original poster……..what exaxctly have you got in the way of machines etc?

I don't have a lathe nor a milling machine.

I own:
A) Two sets of Bahco metal hand files (large & small) which are excellent – highly recommended.

B) a dual grit "SHARPAL 162N Diamond Whetstone Knife Sharpener"
This has two sides: Grit Coarse 325 + Extra Fine 1200 diamonds.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07GRWN1PV/

[I don't like using the coarse side more than necessary as it is already much less effective than it was when new, so I am using metal files to do the bulk of the work… but yes I am using both sides of the whetstone (and lots of lapping fluid)]

C) I also own various out hand tools including jeweller's fine hacksaws, but no machines/desktop machines.

> Looking back to the original posting, I would suggest the
> laser cutters didn't make such a great job either. They don't look like 8 x 16 to me
This is unhelpful speculation. 16x8mm, 16x13mm… the exact dimension details don't matter! But since you ask the laser cutters did a FANTASTIC job and the parts are accurate to 0.1mm.
And they cut about 150 of them, which would have taken me many months to cut by hand.

Re my previous threads:
Yes, I did VERY nearly bought a Proxxon MF70 but given all the negative comments about it's inability to cut steel and the ("runout"?/)inaccuracy of its spindle, I couldn't quite bring myself to.

Then I VERY nearly bought Sherline, but I simply couldn't afford it and I certainly don't have the space for a larger machine as whatever I use will need to be put away at the end of each working day.

TBH, I was holding out for a better made small milling machine about the size of a Proxxon, but it now clear that such a thing simply doesn't exist.

Anyhow, in the end I just make the first parts by hand using hand files, both sides of the diamond whetstone and a heavily customised honing guide. I must have made about 30 or 40 already, but it's extremely time-consuming. Making 16 takes me about 5 hours, i.e. about 13 – 15 minutes each.

Re the idea of buying a sander idea:

A) Any sander would need some kind of "stop", to make sure I don't take off too much material, particularly if I need to make lots of them. Unfortunately most of them that I've seen don't seem to have such a thing built in.

Maybe I would just have to glue a stop onto the table and make some kind of rig out of MDF or similar?

NOTE: Exactly how to make such a rig was behind my original question!

B) I am very tight on space. Can you recommend who makes a good quality, compact, sander that can create accurate 90° faces… particularly on small parts?
e.g. The gap between the sand paper and the support needs to be very small, even when the table is tilted.

PS If I do buy a Proxxon MF70, maybe I could buy "tilting vice", and shave off the metal with a cutting disk??

e.g. This sort of thing (if it fits?!)

**LINK**

Many thanks

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 06/09/2021 15:09:42

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Buying the sander saves you the hassle of engineering a frame, motor and abrasive holder. Some way of holding your workpiece is entirely down to you. Just as it would be if you used any other suitable machine.

Your job is simple: you want to use a machine to turn a 90degree edge into a 45degree one.

They're small parts, and not much material needs to be removed which is why many of us suggested a sander which is far cheaper and easier to use than a milling machine.

All your jig/fixture needs to do is hold the part at the required angle to the abrasive, and have some sort of stop so you don't sand too far.

These machines all come with a table of some sort, which would need to be aligned with the belt to an appropriate level of accuracy. That's just a bit of fiddling with the tool.

I'd do that first, so I could sand a suitable fixture on the machine, saving time and extra set ups. A chunk of timber or MDF with a couple of coachbolts and wing nuts to attach the work and you're almost there.

All that's required is the stop: you could superglue a block to the table and be ready to work in seconds.

I do admire your patience, there's no way I'd have had made as many as you did by hand. The first one would have forced me to automate the job. Or redesign the part; does the entire edge need to be angled or could you just do a few mm at each end and in the middle?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

John Hain gave a good idea of how the parts could be held, however this would be very dependant on the size as 8mm won't work but 13mm may well do so in this case size does matter. I even went as far as getting my similar vee blocks out to mock it up for you but could not do it with an 8mm part.

As you don't want to tell us I can't really elaborate further.

yes tilting head lazers will cut angled parts, you will have to look up someone offering the service. Green arrows show laser cut bevels

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

As you state that you have no machinery or space for machinery my previous comments still apply, give the job to a professional engineering jobbing shop to do or at the very least contact a local model engineering club and see if someone there will do the job for you for a donation to club funds

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

Posted by Dave S on 03/09/2021 17:15:39:

Literally a 5 second design sketch:

If you look I’ve done the design, it just needs dimensioning…

The pins on the angle, in conjunction with the table over the belt set the max DoC.

make it from MDF -more than robust enough for your current run, and simple to work with hand tools.

The accuracy will be limited by the amount of care you take, but your making 1, and then the 64 will end up as matching.

Again I think are overthinking the problem

Dave

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Nicolas – yes the part needs to be as photographed and yes, the entire edge has to be angled.

I am warming to the idea of a small good quality sander. Do you have any specific recommendations?

I am also warming to the idea of buying that damned Proxxon MF70 as it might be useful for various other small jobs… although it I know it's not very well made and looks like a bit of a toy… but at least it's small and light.

J

[ PS Baz – As I have stated I do have space for SMALL machinery, which as I have stated I am prepared to buy. However all tools will need to be cleared away at the end of a working day, so a large milling machine is out of the question. If I had wanted advice about who to outsource to then I would have asked that question. TBH, I am trying hard not to take offence at the tone of your remarks. ]

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