I like a nice tool but..

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

There is another japanese saw that is useful, with no set on the teeth you can cut flush without marking the surface.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I've got one of those, handy for when you plug holes, also quite a flexible blade so you don't scrape your knuckles

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

I agree that a full 360* is not vital but some degree of rotation would be very useful when dovetailing boards which are wider than the throat of the piercing saw frame, to be able to slide down the vertical cuts and then turn along the bottom to cut out most of the waste. I do have an old fashioned fretsaw frame with a deep throat which I could bring back into use.

I have not thought of using spiral piercing saw blades, has anyone used them? How wide is the kerf?

Having said all that, the Japanese don't use a saw at all on the waste and just use a chisel – but then most of their timber is not very hard.

the chap in the video is, I think, David Barron, wno makes or perhaps made a very effective magnetic jig for guiding the Japanese saws.

Rod

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 02/08/2023 13:35:14

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Ah, for dovetails, this works https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-SW45-Coping-Five-Blades/dp/B000LFVJLI

360 degrees no problem

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

Following the link posted by Michael G. above – I found this video.

**LINK**

[ https://youtu.be/GLUfxg24GjM ]

Having absolutely no need or application for one – I want one anyway!!

Apologies if you have already viewed.

Regards.

Frank C.

Edited By Chuck Taper on 02/08/2023 14:57:56

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

Jack. Thanks for the link, but unless I am missing something, that's a coping saw frame of traditional type. I woild like a frame which will hold a much finer blade.

Frank, that's a wonderful frame in that video. I don't need one either but if I had the space and the money….

The video also reminded me why I don't use the traditonal fretsaw frame so much. I have found that the very deep frame ( 15" ? ) is just not rigid enough to get enough tension on the blade for accurate work, Hence the wish for a shallower frame (More rigid) with at least some degree of rotation of the blade.

Clearly there is room for different opinions on this, as in many tool and engineering matters!

Rod

Edited By Rod Renshaw on 02/08/2023 16:33:34

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

Thanks for replies / discussion – interesting! I think JasonB got where I was coming from in his first reply. I had never heard of Hotley planes but had a look. It seems that for £10,560 you can have this fine jointer:

It's a thing of beauty for sure, but surely no-one is going to pay that sort of money then actually use it? And if they did would it really be the magic bullet they presumably hoped for?

I suspected that the pricey saw in my first post might be the same sort of thing, but reading replies maybe not.

JasonB, thanks for the suggestion of using the mill, but the box has to be about A3 size (though shallow) so edges too long. I think I'll probably go for the saw and chisel solution. I'll foul up at first but will learn!

Robin.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but if you put the blade in the frame so it cuts on the pull stroke, most of the rigidity issues go away.

Rob

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

I wonder how many of those Holley planes are manufactured or sold every year.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Hotley, certainly to be admired but using one? It might get scratched!

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I guess if you are stupid rich and not into golf and watches then maybe expensive planes can be your thing.

For dovetails I imagine Chippendale used a normal dovetail saw for the edges not a coarse tenon saw and a frame saw for the bottom leaving room to clean up with a bevel edged chisel. Not really a problem just skill.

For a fine cut you can use a junior hacksaw perhaps. As this is an engineering forum someone wanting a 360 fretsaw just has to make adaptors to hold the appropriate blade in a coping saw frame. But it still makes sence to clean up with a chisel.

Nice to see some people still doing it by hand, not just a router.

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