How much is a life worth

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Looking on line this morning the BBC reported that from next year any body driving a vehicle using a had held device not just a phone but I think gaming and video etc will be fined £200. It stated too many people have been seriously injured or killed by divers using devices whilst driving. So in my opinion the government put £200 as a worth of a life or serious injury which cane be life changing. As a cyclist for over 50 years I have never felt so vulnerable riding my bike as I've witnessed phone use many many times. £200 is not a deterrent it's a slap on the wrist, a years ban and retake of the driving test would help stop or make people thing first before using a device.

Bob

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Phone/device use whilst driving a vehicle should be in the same league as drink driving.

Tony

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

It should mean removal of licence for a period of time. Over the years I don't think I have not seen the phone in use in any type of vehicle. I remember one dinner time about twenty years ago see a double decker bus driver using his phone while in service with passengers on board and moving. It is still too prevalent particularly among van drivers, a guy on the radio this dinner was excusing it by saying as a delivery driver his van is his office, well most offices don't move.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

In the 19th century it was discovered that It doesn't really matter what the penalty is if a law isn't enforced. Last prosecution numbers I can find for handheld mobile phone use were published in 2009 when 13,000 drivers were convicted, at the same time as a survey showed that 29% of drivers were using hand-held mobile phones. The number of traffic police has fallen rapidly over the last few years, and the excuse that cameras make up the shortfall doesn't hold water for this offence.

Brian G

[Ian ParkinParticipant @ianparkin39383]

I fully agree that looking at a mobile screen/texting/watching a video or playing a video game is dangerous and should be dealt with. But holding a phone to your ear…is that so unsafe?

you can have a phone call on hands free legally

you can have a conversation with a passenger legally

you can drive a car with one arm legally with no other modifications.

you can get a cigarette/cigar out and light it with fire…legally?

though someone was prosecuted for eating a kit Kat sometime ago 

you can adjust anything built into the car whilst driving legally…..though going through menus on a modern dash display fills me with dread .

so is holding the phone to your ear so bad?

Edited By Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:13:09

Edited By Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:14:07

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, hands free phones are still allowed though, which I did have one years ago with the old Nokia 6310i when I used to be on callout, but I did get distracted once while driving, but luckily there was no was no other traffic or people about, stopped using it while driving after that and haven't had one since and I think all phone calls should be banned altogether while driving. I agree the £200 is not much deterrent, as you still see van & truck drivers using them while on the move.

Regards Nick.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I use the common sense system. Don't cycle on the road

I find it amusing that people worry about covid19 and vaxxes and the like… then they get onto a pushbike and cycle on a main road because the government guys tell them it's an ok thing to do

It's a very high risk thing to do, especially if you're an old duffer

My bruv has just come from somewhere like Amsterdam where its all done on the pavement, bikes, escooters etc and apparently its a foot pedestrians nightmare

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

Last post about not cycling on the road. I'm a life long cyclist and have clocked up over 200,000 miles, I've been fortunate that I have survived but have had many close calls. Your right I now have stopped cycling on the road and cycle to Sandy on a cycle route off road because I'm worried about the traffic. With all this rhetorical about global warming you would of thought cycling would be King not the car.

Bob

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Ian Parkin on 19/11/2021 17:11:50:

I fully agree that looking at a mobile screen/texting/watching a video or playing a video game is dangerous and should be dealt with. But holding a phone to your ear…is that so unsafe?

you can have a phone call on hands free legally

you can have a conversation with a passenger legally

you can drive a car with one arm legally with no other modifications.

you can get a cigarette/cigar out and light it with fire…legally?

though someone was prosecuted for eating a kit Kat sometime ago

you can adjust anything built into the car whilst driving legally…..though going through menus on a modern dash display fills me with dread .

so is holding the phone to your ear so bad?

…

Mythbuster's put their team round a track with various simple driving tasks and a few surprises. They all did the course whilst legally drunk and again whilst sober, but using a Mobile Phone. (California level is same as the UK.) Conclusively shown that using a mobile phone on the move is more dangerous than drink driving – misjudgements galore, many of which the drivers were unaware! The camera showed them clipping cones, and missing turns and signs.

Mobile phones are much more distracting than listening to broadcast radio or music. It's because phones happen to use the same bit of brain as driving and we can't multi-task.

My employer forbade staff from using any form of mobile whilst driving car pool vehicles, including hands-free. Be nice to think they cared about their people! Actually, their records showed hands-free incidents were costing them enough to be worth banning mobiles entirely.

Dave

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Ady1 on 19/11/2021 17:19:24:

I use the common sense system. Don't cycle on the road

My bruv has just come from somewhere like Amsterdam where its all done on the pavement, bikes, escooters etc and apparently its a foot pedestrians nightmare

If you found yourself in Amsterdam, then, can I assume you'd regard it as common sense not to walk anywhere?

 

 

Edited By Bill Phinn on 19/11/2021 18:14:01

[Anonymous]

Some of this can be exquisitely hypocritical. Here in Ontario, the politicians and police went on a campaign some time ago against distracted driving (from any cause **). This was hotly followed by the introduction of (commercial) giant video screens hanging from overpasses.

These screens are aimed specifically at drivers and blast commercials etc at them. They have prevailed despite complaints that they distract drivers and are even used by various levels of government to push "public service" messages.

** Of course, hands-free phone use is allowed even though there are many studies showing it is hardly less distracting than hands-on.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, just been on the early evening news and the penalty will include 6 points on your licence as well as the £200, so two hits and that's your driving gone for a while. As far a cycling on the road goes, unless otherwise permitted on some sections, it is illegal to cycle on the pavements and you can be fined for doing so.

Regards Nick.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

An email the other day from one of the comparison insurers informed me that 40% of collisions occur at night – followed by a string of suggestions as to keeping screens, lights etc clean.
Of course that means 60% collisions happen during the day, so night driving must be safer…

Yeah, we can all cherry-pick partial statistics…

Perhaps we should change the law – capital punishment for trivial offences, litter, speeding, drink-driving, fly-tipping and the like. At least with murder, there's usually some justification like infidelity or lack of money…

pgk

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Posted by BOB BLACKSHAW on 19/11/2021 16:11:00:

Looking on line this morning the BBC reported that from next year any body driving a vehicle using a had held device not just a phone but I think gaming and video etc will be fined £200. It stated too many people have been seriously injured or killed by divers using devices whilst driving. So in my opinion the government put £200 as a worth of a life or serious injury which cane be life changing. As a cyclist for over 50 years I have never felt so vulnerable riding my bike as I've witnessed phone use many many times. £200 is not a deterrent it's a slap on the wrist, a years ban and retake of the driving test would help stop or make people thing first before using a device.

Bob

Not sure of the logic there in equating the fine to the cost of a life. If using a mobile whilst driving was serious enought to warrent a penalty equating to the cost of a life then the penulty should be death or at least the equivalent tarrif for murder. This clearly demonstrates that the two cannnot be simply equated. In fact the penalty for causing a death whilst using a mobile is 8 years as demonstrated by the recent sentence handed down to a lorry driver who killed a child. The £200 and the six points is for just getting caught.

That said, personally I think it is perfectly possible to detect if a mobile is moving and on a road and turn it off automatically. If this prevents others in the car from using their devices well tough. Reasonable enough to prevent the ubiquitous use of mobiles whilst driving.

regards Martin

[Clock polisherParticipant @clockpolisher]

With time on my hands I have recently been watching some of the police interceptor type tv programs.

They always show police drivers, some involved in high speed pursuits, taking one hand off the steering wheel to use their radio. This with another officer in the car as well.

Will this also now become illegal?

regards

David

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clock polisher on 19/11/2021 19:16:12:

With time on my hands I have recently been watching some of the police interceptor type tv programs.

They always show police drivers, some involved in high speed pursuits, taking one hand off the steering wheel to use their radio. This with another officer in the car as well.

Will this also now become illegal?

regards

David

.

Probably not

If you watch some old episodes of Top Gear, you will see the presenters using CB [or similar] … in flagrant disregard of the spirit of the legislation : Exploiting the convenient loophole in the ‘phone-specific’ rules [which I suspect was put there to avoid inconveniencing the various Emergency Services drivers].

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Just found this, from an ‘authoritative’ source:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4505788/the-handheld-device-you-can-use-while-driving-and-even-lets-you-chat-to-pals/

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/11/2021 19:36:01

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Just think about it, that kid got life, or rather, lost it.

So why not hit the culprits bloody hard, like doleing out prison terms and permanent cancellation of license.

Perhaps if any of you are parents you may think how would you feel about the guilty getting off with a light punishment?

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

This is typcal lawmaking just to make it easier to get a conviction and look like the politicians are doing something. There are existing laws coving being in control of a vehicle. These have been used long before cellphones to proscecute mobile radio users. The original cellphone law draft covered all types of hand held radio use. Then they realised that this would affect the emergency services so it was made specfic to cellphones. I reserve further comment until the changes are made law.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Since Amsterdam has been mentioned, I was on one occasion on the verge of being done for not being proper control of my vehicle because I was wearing Clogs ! The national No1 cycle route is sent down a single track road in rural Norfolk, not withstanding the fact that this road is used by HUGE agricultural machine and during the harvest and beet season many large artics, is this a good idea ? Whilst the main road is busy, there is also room to avoid a cyclist ! I feel that far to many decisions are made in offices rather than in the field ! Noel

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 19/11/2021 16:27:16:

Phone/device use whilst driving a vehicle should be in the same league as drink driving.

Tony

AAAHHH, My dollup of sanity for today.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 19/11/2021 16:27:16:

Phone/device use whilst driving a vehicle should be in the same league as drink driving.

Tony

Momentary distraction vs impaired everything? Doesn't equate IMO. I'm not advocating using a mobile whilst driving I'm just pointing out that a person not drunk is capable of risk assessment and normal judgement whereas a drunk person loses inhibitions, judgement, co-ordination and the ability to rationalise correctly.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

……..

Probably not

If you watch some old episodes of Top Gear, you will see the presenters using CB [or similar] … in flagrant disregard of the spirit of the legislation : Exploiting the convenient loophole in the ‘phone-specific’ rules [which I suspect was put there to avoid inconveniencing the various Emergency Services drivers].

MichaelG.

.

……

What winds me up is when they have a camera in the passenger footwell and drive along the public road talking to the camera. Surely they could be had for driving without due care and attention, police could tie how long they are not looking at the road

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Both are potentially deadly. How many drunk drivers crash into another drunk driver? If every dummy was using attention-diverting kit it would not be long before they would be crashing with others doing the same (as well as more innocent parties). One, not paying attention, is one too many.

We were hit in the rear, 21 years ago, by someone who was almost certainly using a mobile phone. 40mph speed limit on a straight road and they claimed they had not seen our vehicle, waiting to turn right, until about 20 yards away.

I am still suffering the consequences – a shoulder that ‘aches’ and my neck, that aches after less than a couple hours driving.

Too many killed by lorries hitting vehicles queuing in traffic jams where drivers are doing ‘other activities’. Any sensible person capable of risk assessment would quickly come to the conclusion that it is not safe. Clearly there are a lot, out there, that are incapable of even making that risk assessment.

Edited By not done it yet on 20/11/2021 09:19:29

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

All use while driving of any types of phone/communication should be banned,and placed out of reach of the driver, if caught the phone should be confiscated and destroyed, I suspect that any type of touch screen can lead to accidents, there are too many distractions in the modern car, and with the increase in so called smart motorways with no hard shoulder any distraction could all so easily be fatal.

[Author]

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