Home built trailer

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Posted by George Clarihew on 06/08/2019 20:22:56:

Presume driver is old enough to have a driving licence that covers towing.

Son and heir was towing 12 ton trailers when 16 years old at work (farming) but could not tow a wheelbarrow sized trailer behind his car as he had not done a towing test to get the necessary category added to his licence.

Yes a little crazy ! My Grandson was the same had to take a trailer test to tow with anything other than a tractor — cost him around £600 for the "training" !!

John

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Prompted by Plasma to add the slightly off topic comment I recently had a tow bar fitted and a couple of weeks later came to use it to take my engine for a steam test, hitched it up tried the lights only to find nothing worked ! Cancel steam test and off I went to the tow bar fitters he check it out and returned saying that the electrics had been turned off in the vehicles management system ask me if the car had been into a workshop it had it fact and when in there they had done a software download ! It cost me £40 to get it reset the dealship said they would not cover the cost long story but they paided up in the end

H

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Ok. So tow bar fitted professionally this morning with all paperwork and guarantees in order. Lovely book on towing from Highways agency with lots of helpful information.

Asked about self building and the chap said, no problem, as long as you're not building them commercially just carry on.

They supply everything you need off the shelf. May cost same as buying a shiny new galvanised tin one but mine will be bomb proof and built as I need it with a loading ramp etc.

Need to start drawing now.

Regards plasma

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Plasma, I'd look a bit deeper into it and make sure that your latest info is correct.
I'm not entirely sure I'd trust someone in a shop for legal advice.

I think he's partially correct in that commercially built trailers are normally submitted for type approval, thus obviating the need to present each one for an IVA (Trailer)

Have a look at this guidance, but remember it is only that, as they have been known to get the finer nuances wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-light-trailers-help-to-get-a-pass

See also This Link

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-categories-01-02-03-and-04-trailers

From what I can make out, it's an EU directive, but don't blame the EU as it originated as a UN policy,
The EU were merely delegated as our representatives to the UN to come up with suitable harmonised legislation, rather than having to send our own civil servants there.

And another link here

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/vehicletype/trailers.asp

 

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 13/08/2019 13:54:12

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by peak4 on 13/08/2019 13:49:03:

Plasma, I'd look a bit deeper into it and make sure that your latest info is correct.
I'm not entirely sure I'd trust someone in a shop for legal advice.

I think he's partially correct in that commercially built trailers are normally submitted for type approval, thus obviating the need to present each one for an IVA (Trailer)

Have a look at this guidance, but remember it is only that, as they have been known to get the finer nuances wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-light-trailers-help-to-get-a-pass

See also This Link

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/iva-manual-for-categories-01-02-03-and-04-trailers

From what I can make out, it's an EU directive, but don't blame the EU as it originated as a UN policy,
The EU were merely delegated as our representatives to the UN to come up with suitable harmonised legislation, rather than having to send our own civil servants there.

And another link here

https://www.vehicle-certification-agency.gov.uk/vehicletype/trailers.asp

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 13/08/2019 13:54:12

I agree with Bill, I have a friend who works for a company building special trailers and he sorts out the paperwork, tests etc for all of the trailers, when asked he can quote the rules off pat and all trailers, factory or home built now have to be checked over before they can be used.

Martin P

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

It's not just a shop, this is an accredited towing centre with facilities to undertake trailer safety checks etc. So I am confident the advice given was accurate and reliable. Especially as they could have said it's more trouble than it's worth building your own and sold me 500 quid worth of new trailer.

I'm reading through some of the links but typical of .Gov documents it's as clear as mud.

As posters have said before a well built trailer will be stronger than many ready built pressed steel ones.

Plasma

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Plasma on 13/08/2019 21:38:11:

It's not just a shop, this is an accredited towing centre with facilities to undertake trailer safety checks etc. So I am confident the advice given was accurate and reliable. Especially as they could have said it's more trouble than it's worth building your own and sold me 500 quid worth of new trailer.

I'm reading through some of the links but typical of .Gov documents it's as clear as mud.

As posters have said before a well built trailer will be stronger than many ready built pressed steel ones.

Plasma

Plasma,

I've just texted my friend, see previous thread, the following message, If I want to build a trailer from scratch would I need to get it tested, his answer was yes if you wanted it to be Legal it would need to go for an IVA check.

Martin P

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Hi Martin.

Thanks for that enquiry, ts good to have your friends input.

I will wade through the guidance documents to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I will check before I commit to buying the parts and starting to build anything.

Regards plasma

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

It’s like a lot of things, technically you need to comply, but who actually checks…… unless you were unlucky enough to get a tug from Vosa or had a serious accident, no one will check. There was talk of trailers having to have an MOT but it’s not materialised. Just buy a plate off ebay and stamp the date as 2011 Job done.

Posted by Plasma on 13/08/2019 22:10:29:

Hi Martin.

Thanks for that enquiry, ts good to have your friends input.

I will wade through the guidance documents to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I will check before I commit to buying the parts and starting to build anything.

Regards plasma

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I think this is the legislation, but I'll stand to be corrected. A word search on "trailer" elicits about 150 matches, but "individual vehicle approval" only about 50, so may be a better place to start.

On one of the links I posted earlier, there is reference to trailers built US and Canadian standards also being accepted, provided they were built over there, approved and subsequently imported, as their standards, whilst different, are considered to be sufficiently rigorous to ensure safety. This again relates to it being a UN requirement/recommendation, rather than just the EU getting all bureaucratic/authoritarian.

I'm sure Plasma is aware, but not that far from him is a DVSA weighbridge, where I've regularly seen vehicles in for what appears to be an inspection as well as a weighing; I was always a bit nervous going past on the way to a rally with my Harvey Frost Towboy and a lot of ironmongery in the back of the Landrover.

Personally I might just pick up a plate off ebay just to keep in stock should I ever need one.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

In one of the caravan and camping magazines recently there was a piece where the police stated they are going to step up road side spot checks on trailers etc, if you buy an off the shelf spec plate what are you going to stamp on, my Ifor williams has the serial no and its gross weight, this includes the empty trailer weight. If you build a trailer you will still need to get it weighed because if you get pulled and it goes on a weigh bridge and its over your guessed weight who's fault is that, they will then have a field day and check everything. I'm more than happy to comply with the rules hence why I recently derated my trailer.

Martin P

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

Looks like buying a new trailer is more cost effective and easier to navigate than a home build.

Plasma

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

There is a photo of an unacceptable light arrangement (obscured with doors open) in the .Gov "pass the IVA test" page

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-light-trailers-help-to-get-a-pass/individual-vehicle-approval-iva-for-light-trailers-help-to-get-a-pass

About half way down, it's obviously a minature railway layout. Trailler looks professionally made, galvanised etc, but still a fail. Possibly modified from a drop down ramp to spit doors.

Robert G8RPI

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

If the regulations originated with the UN then the presumption is that they would want to apply them worldwide, I assume that would then include the continents of Asia and Africa, I wish them good luck with that! I am not against regulations, I think they serve a purpose in promoting safety and standardisation, a good thing for everyone’s wellbeing, but in all honesty I can’t see compliance in any form within third world countries.

Dave W

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Samsaranda on 14/08/2019 15:17:38:

If the regulations originated with the UN then the presumption is that they would want to apply them worldwide, I assume that would then include the continents of Asia and Africa, I wish them good luck with that! I am not against regulations, I think they serve a purpose in promoting safety and standardisation, a good thing for everyone’s wellbeing, but in all honesty I can’t see compliance in any form within third world countries.

Dave W

What's immediately achievable and what remains a goal may be two different things.
We are, for better or worse, stuck with the legislation that applies in the UK.
If anyone's really bored with the weather, here's a couple or vaguely relevant links that make interesting reading
I don't doubt that Plasma, or most other folks on here, is/are perfectly capable of building a trailer to the relevant regs. and getting the IVA for £70

Link -1 https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/1501960_E_ECE_INF_2015_2_WEB.pdf

Link-2 https://www.fiafoundation.org/blog/2015/september/meet-un-car-safety-standards-worldwide-by-2020-motor-industry-told

Bill

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Why do we think it originates with the UN? Seems improbable to me.

As regards getting them tested, my wife was hit by a trailer carrying a car along the motorway, no longer attached to the vehicle towing it, the towbar had snapped. Very lucky she is still with us. Why would we not want something capable of carrying a couple of tons at high speed not to be tested? A 2te trailer at 50 mph has more than 200 times the kinetic energy of a Kalashnikov bullet. Many of us are perfectly capable of welding up a trailer, but there are those who think they can and can't.

Edited By duncan webster on 14/08/2019 15:58:42

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Alan Waddington 2 on 13/08/2019 22:37:29:

It’s like a lot of things, technically you need to comply, but who actually checks…… unless you were unlucky enough to get a tug from Vosa or had a serious accident, no one will check. There was talk of trailers having to have an MOT but it’s not materialised. Just buy a plate off ebay and stamp the date as 2011 Job done.

Please don't encourage people to do that.

Acting in ignorance is one thing, if you kill someone when your trailer fails and it has a fake year plate you'll be done for a lot more than fraud.

The IVA check is actually FREE if carried out at a suitable place, and if you use the supplier who sold you the bits you used to make it the worst risk is discovering a fault.

Neil

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by duncan webster on 14/08/2019 15:58:07:

Why do we think it originates with the UN? Seems improbable to me.

As regards getting them tested, my wife was hit by a trailer carrying a car along the motorway, no longer attached to the vehicle towing it, the towbar had snapped. Very lucky she is still with us. Why would we not want something capable of carrying a couple of tons at high speed not to be tested? A 2te trailer at 50 mph has more than 200 times the kinetic energy of a Kalashnikov bullet. Many of us are perfectly capable of welding up a trailer, but there are those who think they can and can't.

Edited By duncan webster on 14/08/2019 15:58:42

There's some stuff about it In Here, and as regards testing, from what I can gather, there's still no MOT for light trailers.

It seem it's UN documentation, which various countries have enshrined in their own laws and regulations, using their own interpretations and specifics.
I think that includes Canada and US, and can't be bothered to research Australasian rules; EU took on the negotiations etc. on behalf of its member states to ensure harmonisation of regs. within the community to make use, and import/export easier.

Bill

[Alan Waddington 2Participant @alanwaddington2]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 14/08/2019 16:28:54:

Please don't encourage people to do that.

Acting in ignorance is one thing, if you kill someone when your trailer fails and it has a fake year plate you'll be done for a lot more than fraud.

The IVA check is actually FREE if carried out at a suitable place, and if you use the supplier who sold you the bits you used to make it the worst risk is discovering a fault.

Neil

Take your point, however its a fairly unlikely scenario, and considering the amount of old nails been towed around the country made from old car axles and bits of driftwood, that were built prior to the test becoming mandatory it all seems a bit daft. Test is £70 btw, or was last time i looked, and test centres are few and far between, with long lead times.

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I don’t know about the rest of the world but here in Australia you can (or could last time i checked ) go on to the website for the RMS ( Australian version of DMV or motoring regulatory authority) and download the Australian design regulations for the construction of trailers which sets out all the design rules right down to the placement of the required reflectors and lights etc. It might be worth checking with your local Authorities to see if they do a similar thing as it makes designing and building a trailer so much simpler !

[PlasmaParticipant @plasma]

For the sake of completeness I have emailed the DVSA who administer all things vehicular to ask the current position re a home built trailer, not for resale or hire etc. Just me wanting to cart my mower from A to B etc.

Neil, are you talking about a trailer safety check rather than the kind of IVA process which seems pretty involved and you need to attend one of a handful of centres.

When or if I get a sensible reply I will post here.

You never know if we do actually leave the EU we may be discussing something for nothing.

Oh and I sympathise with anyone who has been affected by untested trailers or vehicles but bear in mind, the MoT is not a guarantee of safety for 12 months, a wheel could fall off on the way home from the test centre. Any number of bits of paper prove nothing in the real world unfortunately.

Plasma

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Plasma on 14/08/2019 19:32:07:

Oh and I sympathise with anyone who has been affected by untested trailers or vehicles but bear in mind, the MoT is not a guarantee of safety for 12 months, a wheel could fall off on the way home from the test centre. Any number of bits of paper prove nothing in the real world unfortunately.

It's not a guarantee, but it does mean that the trailer(car, van whatever) has been inspected by a disinterested party and so have any necessary repairs once they've been made. This is one of many reasons why the MOT exemptions for classic cars is a terrible idea, although not as terrible as some of the repairs that owners do only when forced to. Having such a test would also force some of the maintenance that many trailers have never had – I recovered several that wouldn't have caused their crashes if simple jobs like greasing the wheel bearings or replacing time expired tyres had been carried out. Expensive caravans or car carriers aren't immune to that either.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hmm! been following this with interest and its got me wondering is this legislation retrospective ? That's to say I have an 8' x 4' home built trailer, built some 30 + years ago using a small modified caravan chassis as the base. I think the rating plate was around 14cwt ???

Should it be tested/approved since it was built before any of this legislation came into force.

It has served me well and carried many tons of material & a few machines, its been re-boarded several times and lighting, sides and strap anchor points etc upgraded. At the moment due for another refurb this winter – its very busy right now !

Comments please —- John

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Legislation is not retrospective. However all trailer must be road legal and it's worth checking the small print on your insurance policy. Some insurers are limiting cover to commercial or approved trailers. A sigificant change (more wheels, different hitch etc) may trigger the need for a IVA.

Robert G8RPI.

[RMAParticipant @rma]

It may not apply to many (or any) on here, but I know some who take their heavy loco's to rallies and clubs on the Continent with trailers they have made or bought. The law in Spain, and it may well apply in France, is to register your trailer with it's own number plate and have it tested! The fines now are horrendous, but I still see Brits chancing it.

I would suspect that this will eventually happen in the UK, Brexit or not. I've followed trailers being towed at 70 mph or more on two tiddly thin wheels carrying loads that are probably never weighed! I for one would welcome a standardised test for all vehicles.

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