Holding sheet metal on milling table

[RMAParticipant @rma]

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Good morning all

I'm sure someone on here has the answer. I want to create a chequer plate effect to some thin brass, roughly 1.5 inches square, and as the pattern will go over the whole area, there is nowhere to clamp. I intend to use the mill as a shaper using a vee tool.

Cuts will only be a few thou, so I thought of using double sided tape directly to the table, but there are so many variants and if it's too thick it might move or depress with the cut. Has anyone done this and what type of tape can you recommend?

Any other ideas will be welcome. Thank you

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Soft solder, or perhaps superglue, onto a larger, thicker piece of brass?

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Will you be able to see the back on the finished model?

If not, how about some soft solder paste or similar to something thicker, or even a superglue, carefully selected, which will break down with a bit of heat.
If you want to avoid heating, a perforated block of metal with the brass superglued to it, would probably release its captive brass plate if you inverted it and filled the holes with acetone.

Bill

Looks like we were typing at the same time Clive, but you're quicker than me.

 

Edited By peak4 on 28/01/2019 11:35:47

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Double sided sound fav to me.

Martin

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

Unsure what's aleyouarestriving for but at smaller scales the easiest way by far to do this will be by etching the pattern onto brass.

At its simplest chemically degrease the surface and apply Letraset diamond hatching then etch with ferric chloride (as sold for making printed circuit boards)

For more specific patterns do artwork and photo print onto plate before etching

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm a fan of super-glue for holding thin work in place. The glue spreads thinly so the job stays flat on the mount, and it's much faster and far less fuss than soldering. Once finished the bond is broken by boiling water, and any glue remnants are fairly easy to remove with nail varnish remover (acetone). In comparison solder requires tools and is much harder to apply and far harder to remove.

Main thing with glue is to to get everything really clean first – even a tiny trace of grease weakens the joint massively – and not to overheat the bond while cutting.

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thin [*] double-sided tape should hold the material, but it may be difficult to remove the workpiece without bending it

I would favour the traditional Shellac, and a sub-plate.

Edit: or, as Dave suggests, a suitable 'superglue'

MichaelG.

.

[*]

SupaDec does a version; intended, I think, for vinyl floor-coverings.

3M is probably the best manufacturer of such stuff.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/01/2019 12:38:29

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 28/01/2019 12:53:51

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Double sided tape for sure, hair dryer or similar heat will soften the glue.

Tony

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Cut the pattern while still part of a larger sheet then cut out the bit you want, that way you have the rest of the sheet to clamp as you wish.

I thought Michael may point out that the diamonds should be lower while the "lines" should be raised rather than cutting the lines.

Edited By JasonB on 28/01/2019 13:03:41

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Thanks for all the replies/suggestions guys.

The parts are already cut out by laser as part of a kit hence the need to hold from beneath. Ideally I want to 'stick' them to the bed, so I'll try tape first. They shouldn'y distort when moving as they are 1.2mm thick, so heat and a razor blade will be tried.

Will update when finished, it might help someone else. Thanks again

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by JasonB on 28/01/2019 13:02:17:

… I thought Michael may point out that the diamonds should be lower while the "lines" should be raised rather than cutting the lines.

.

… But Michael showed restraint, and simply answered the question.

MichaelG.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

"Cuts will only be a few thou…" – so very delicate work RMA and I think you already understand that you will need to work on a flat and unyielding surface.

As Michael suggests – use a sub-plate but make sure it is absolutely true/flat to the worktable before you super-glue the work to it (using a weight). Removable pins in the sub-plate will help you to edge align the work piece correctly to the sub-plate (which can be clocked true beforehand). I've not used a mill to do this kind of fine cutting, as I have a hand shaper which I think is preferable for this kind of small application – but don't see why it wouldn't work.

For true chequer plate – you really need to etch the work as JP suggests.

Regards,

IanT

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

A trick we used at work for holding small pieces for routing was to cut a hole the size of the plate in a larger piece of scrap material slightly thinner than the workpiece. Both fixed to the sub plate with 3M VHB tape, then clamped to the machine bed. Fairly thin soft aluminium was used as a sub plate, as it was easier to 'peel' off.

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

If its only a few thou deep, and you are happy with depressing the chequer section, then what about grinding a diamond form to a piece of silver steel rod and pressing the depression into the brass? Sort of as you would stamp letters/numbers onto a dial / indicator face.

I know the brass is hard, but a few though on a diamond form say 4mm x 3mm might work.

Else, place the plate diagonally and clamp one half, engrave the lines on the unclamped half, and clamp the now done half, then remove the previous clamps, etc, etc..

Joe

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Can you cut a larger sheet, clamp it, produce the diamond pattern, then cut it to size? You don't say how thick your thin piece is.

[Anonymous]

Posted by Chris Trice on 28/01/2019 16:06:29:

You don't say how thick your thin piece is.

Read a few posts back.

Andrew

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

Can I suggest that a thin sheet of brass is very likely to flex – possibly becoming tight in the centre or vice versa – unless it is firmly attached all over to a thicker sheet. To do this you need to sandwich the pair under pressure between two flat surfaces, while the adhesive sets. As for the glue itself, tradition would say shellac, such as knotting, applied evenly to the thicker element, allowed to dry horizontally, add the thin brass, and warm carefully and evenly with eg a hair dryer, and put under pressure (four volumes of an encyclopedia, perhaps) while it cools. Leave one edge of the thin sheet overlapping slightly (2mm) so you can hold it when warming the pair again to separate. Then remove traces of shellac with alcohol (meths, burning alcohol).

Or do the same sort of things with Loctite or a similar product – but you need a fancy solvent to get traces off afterwards.

Hope this helps – Tim

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Tim Stevens on 28/01/2019 18:03:18:

(four volumes of an encyclopedia, perhaps)

See, they DO still have a use

Neil

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I used to machine thin aluminium plates using a vacume pump. We had a plate with an o-ring in groove just inside the edge of the piece there was a hole inside the o-ring connected to a cross hole which was connected to a vacume pump switch on the pump and you cannot move the piece. The pump was hired for about £40.00 a day but you can machine a lot of pieces in a day.

David

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

Having thought about this, I'd epoxy the sheet to a piece of good quality plywood (after scouring the back of the brass with a bit of abrasive paper) and clamp the plywood to the table. Once machined, heat the brass with a hot air gun until the bond with the epoxy is broken.

Edited By Chris Trice on 29/01/2019 10:27:15

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Hi Guys

Some interesting variations here, I didn't think it would create so much interest. But in reality I have 2 pre laser cut pieces of 1.2mm thk brass roughly 2 inches square in total that have to be scored/cut a few thou deep edge to edge to replicate the look of chequer plate.

I have sourced some thin strong double sided tape and will try it out next week. I'll put my results on here……good or bad. Thanks for all the suggestions.

[Chris TriceParticipant @christrice43267]

I'd be inclined to arrange for some kind of edge stops to stop the sheet from shifting as opposed to lifting.

[Dod MoleParticipant @georgeclarihew]

You could try going back to your laser cutter person and ask them to engrave the pattern with their laser as it is a no contact process

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