Highway Code

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by martin perman on 06/01/2022 13:36:54:

I was chatting to a locum chemist who was working in the chemist where I work and he told me he had just passed his test, I asked him had he and his friends been taught what the pretty orange lights do on cars, he replied yes because we have to learn the theory, so I asked why do people not use them and his immediate response was they most likely do what I've done, I've passed, thrown the highway code away and drive as I wish, he is a well educated young man who just doesn't give a s**t.

Martin P

Not that well educated one might suggest. I would further suggest that once he has had a few dings & points on his licence, his insurance policy will up in price & he might start to give a s…t

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Mark Rand, not sure about what you are saying about pedestrians etc. at junctions, but a vehicle must give way to pedestrians etc. who are already crossing but I don't think they have priority, however once a pedestrian has stepped onto a Zebra crossing (those that have Belisha beacons) all vehicles must give way to them, but when approaching junctions or or Zebra crossings, you should look out for pedestrians, cyclists etc, and be prepared to give way. When you approach a major road, it will normally have a give way sign or a stop sign, a give way sign means give way to traffic on the major road, a stop sign means you must stop and give way behind the white line regardless of anything and wait long enough to be sure you can proceed safely.

Regards Nick.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

The only objection to cycle lanes are local in that I find the one's in and around my town are rearly use with most still riding on the pavement and don't get me started about the nutters that practice their sprint finishes in the park !

H

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 06/01/2022 16:14:21:

Hi Mark Rand, not sure about what you are saying about pedestrians etc. at junctions, but a vehicle must give way to pedestrians etc. who are already crossing but I don't think they have priority, however once a pedestrian has stepped onto a Zebra crossing (those that have Belisha beacons) all vehicles must give way to them, but when approaching junctions or or Zebra crossings, you should look out for pedestrians, cyclists etc, and be prepared to give way. When you approach a major road, it will normally have a give way sign or a stop sign, a give way sign means give way to traffic on the major road, a stop sign means you must stop and give way behind the white line regardless of anything and wait long enough to be sure you can proceed safely.

Regards Nick.

Rule 170

Take extra care at junctions. You should

• watch out for cyclists, motorcyclists, powered wheelchairs/mobility scooters and pedestrians as they are not always easy to see. Be aware that they may not have seen or heard you if you are approaching from behind
• watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Mark Rand on 06/01/2022 13:01:21:

As I pointed out earlier. Pedestrians, bikes (even horses!) have always had the right of way when crossing a minor road in the direction of the major road. Once their foot is on the road you MUST give way.

I have also, a few times had to thump the bonnet of cars that have tried to pull out of minor roads and entrances when I was crossing them directly in front of them. In cases like this, drivers should be glad of a dented bonnet, it's a lot chaper than points on the license, a possible ban and a possible claim for injury or death.

Are you rock solid certain of that Mark?

Highway Code Rule 8 hints at your interpretation, but there's a big fat condition in it! My bold:

At a junction. When crossing the road, look out for traffic turning into the road, especially from behind you. If you have started crossing and traffic wants to turn into the road, you have priority and they should give way

So, you have priority if already crossing before the car arrives. However, plenty of other rules say pedestrians shouldn't just carry on regardless:

Rule 7A – find a safe place to cross.

Rule 7B – Stop just before you get to the kerb, where you can see if anything is coming. Do not get too close to the traffic.

Rule 7D – If traffic is coming, let it pass.

I suggest walking in front of a car about to turn onto a main road is unsafe. The driver is likely to be concentrating on other traffic and might not see a pedestrian step in front of him, perhaps because of the blind-spot caused by the thick strut between windscreen and door. For that reason I always cross behind the first car queuing at a junction. I reckon it's safer because any other cars other waiting in the queue are stopped and have more time to take in what I'm doing. Plus, me not distracting the driver of the first car makes it less likely he'll hit something when he pulls out.

Can't recommend whacking other people's bonnets. Not all drivers are guaranteed to react politely! Road rage…

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Mark, assume that I have arrived at the point to proceed onto the major road and there is no other traffic and at that moment in time you step onto the road, in your way of thinking I have to give way and wait until you have crossed, well I don't think it cuts it as already crossing. If you stepped onto the road while I was approaching and still at a safe distance away to give way, you would be considered as already crossing. The only rule I know about a pedestrian stepping onto the road that gives them priority is on a Zebra crossing and that is from either side, but that still needs to be when there is a safe distance for a vehicle to give way, no good stepping onto a crossing or any other part of the road where a vehicle has no chance to stop or give way. Pedestrians have to be just as cautious as anyone else. Myself, I would have regard to my life, rather than worrying if I had priority over a vehicle.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 06/01/2022 18:22:17

[Anonymous]

Just curious:

Given that cyclists demand equality (and more) with motor-vehicle drivers, are there any plans in the UK to have cyclists do their bit and pay their share (road-tax, licence, insurance, driving test)?

[David TocherParticipant @davidtocher94033]

Warning; thread drift

“The hypothecation of vehicle excise duty was abolished in the 1930s, although the excise licence is still sometimes mistakenly referred to as a ‘road fund licence’.”
A brief history of registration, DVLA [PDF]

Vehicle excise duty depends on the emissions and is zero for pollution-free vehicles. Cycles would be zero rated like electric cars.

The idea of licencing children, after a suitable test, to ride a bike to school seems an excellent way to encourage yet more parents to take their kids by car rather than let them cycle, increasing pollution and congestion.

If all road users were required insurance would that apply to pedestrians, horse riders etc? If not, why not?

 

Edited By David Tocher on 07/01/2022 10:49:41

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

ALL children should be licenced. We're warned enough "Keep away from Children" in various adverts.

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 07/01/2022 10:55:26

[Sam Longley 1Participant @samlongley1]

Posted by Circlip on 07/01/2022 10:54:11:

ALL children should be licenced. We're warned enough "Keep away from Children" in various adverts.

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 07/01/2022 10:55:26

Personally I would suggest that it might be better to licence the parents. That might be a better route for starters.

[egaParticipant @ega]

David Tocher:

Thank you for nailing that ancient chestnut!

You could also have pointed out that many cyclists are also motorists and that Cycling UK members are insured against third party claims.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

As well as practicing defensive driving, motorcycling and cycling I also practice being a defensive pedestrian unbelievably my only pedestrian incident was crossing a side street in London an unmarked police vehicle nearly clipped me, I banged his mirror and he decided to stop and take my name, a short while later in Leicester Square he greeted me and a mate with not you two again.

Mike

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Sam Longley 1 on 07/01/2022 11:10:06:

Posted by Circlip on 07/01/2022 10:54:11:

ALL children should be licenced. We're warned enough "Keep away from Children" in various adverts.

Regards Ian.

Edited By Circlip on 07/01/2022 10:55:26

Personally I would suggest that it might be better to licence the parents. That might be a better route for starters.

And don't forget the need to severely punish the grandparents. They're responsible for the parents who messed up the children…

[Nigel BennettParticipant @nigelbennett69913]

Ah, yes, the old business of making cyclists pay to use the road. Presumably that will also include horse riders and pedestrians, all of whom have a RIGHT to use the Queen's Highway, unlike all those people in motor cars, who don't; they only have permission. And permission that can be withdrawn.

Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement, whereby the sum paid equates to the damage a bike does to the roads. A typical bike weighs 20lb, a motor car say 2000lb. So to be fair, tax should be in proportion. So that's one hundredth of £160, which I think is what I paid for my last car tax. £1.60 it is then. But wait a minute – bikes can't use motorways, so that should knock a bit more off. Say a quid.

How are you proposing to write to all the cyclists, and administer the tax for a quid per cycle per year?

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Nigel Bennett on 07/01/2022 16:38:36:

Ah, yes, the old business of making cyclists pay to use the road. Presumably that will also include horse riders and pedestrians, all of whom have a RIGHT to use the Queen's Highway, unlike all those people in motor cars, who don't; they only have permission. And permission that can be withdrawn.

Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement, whereby the sum paid equates to the damage a bike does to the roads. A typical bike weighs 20lb, a motor car say 2000lb. So to be fair, tax should be in proportion. So that's one hundredth of £160, which I think is what I paid for my last car tax. £1.60 it is then. But wait a minute – bikes can't use motorways, so that should knock a bit more off. Say a quid.

How are you proposing to write to all the cyclists, and administer the tax for a quid per cycle per year?

I think your weights are about 50% too small. Although that doesn't affect the tax numbers…..

[RMAParticipant @rma]

Posted by Nigel Bennett on 07/01/2022 16:38:36:

Ah, yes, the old business of making cyclists pay to use the road. Presumably that will also include horse riders and pedestrians, all of whom have a RIGHT to use the Queen's Highway, unlike all those people in motor cars, who don't; they only have permission. And permission that can be withdrawn.

Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement, whereby the sum paid equates to the damage a bike does to the roads. A typical bike weighs 20lb, a motor car say 2000lb. So to be fair, tax should be in proportion. So that's one hundredth of £160, which I think is what I paid for my last car tax. £1.60 it is then. But wait a minute – bikes can't use motorways, so that should knock a bit more off. Say a quid.

How are you proposing to write to all the cyclists, and administer the tax for a quid per cycle per year?

Queens highway?? Maybe she should mend all the potholes then!

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Nigel Bennett on 07/01/2022 16:38:36:

… horse riders and pedestrians, all of whom have a RIGHT to use the Queen's Highway, unlike all those people in motor cars, who don't; they only have permission. And permission that can be withdrawn.

…

This may very well be right for all I know but can you give chapter and verse?

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by RMA on 07/01/2022 17:18:4

Queens highway?? Maybe she should mend all the potholes then!

Nah! My local highway authority has got it cracked: just put up a sign that says

That's fixed it then. Seems to be prevalent throughout Buckinghamshire.

John

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Nigel Bennett on 07/01/2022 16:38:36:

Ah, yes, the old business of making cyclists pay to use the road. Presumably that will also include horse riders and pedestrians, all of whom have a RIGHT to use the Queen's Highway, unlike all those people in motor cars, who don't; they only have permission. And permission that can be withdrawn.

Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement, whereby the sum paid equates to the damage a bike does to the roads. A typical bike weighs 20lb, a motor car say 2000lb. So to be fair, tax should be in proportion. So that's one hundredth of £160, which I think is what I paid for my last car tax. £1.60 it is then. But wait a minute – bikes can't use motorways, so that should knock a bit more off. Say a quid.

How are you proposing to write to all the cyclists, and administer the tax for a quid per cycle per year?

Far too simple approach. No consideration for the weight of rider/driver/passengers, and none at all to the contact pressure of two narrow tyres compared to four fat ones. Then there is the need to pay towards the licence plate registration and administration costs. Also while cyclists are allowed to use roads then motorists get no use of cycleways, towpaths and bridleways all of which probably cover the motorway lengths. And that's before we make allowances for the increased food intake cyclists need and their fart and sweat pollution and the lycra landfill. Oh, and the health hazards and costs to NHS from ruptures, haemorrhoids, lady issues and the like. They should also be expected to hold insurance and pass a roadworthiness test for driver and vehicle.

pgk

pgk

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nigel Bennett on 07/01/2022 16:38:36:

[…]

Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement […]

.

Sorry, Nigel … Whilst I agree with the basic concept of proportional taxation: I think you have the wrong formula.

I would suggest that all road-users be taxed in proportion to the amount of disturbance they cause to the reasonable progress of others.

MichaelG.

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

License plates and drivers licenses and insurance for bikes and scooters next?

[David TocherParticipant @davidtocher94033]

'Anyway, let's work out a fair system of how much cyclists should pay. I suggest some kind of weight arrangement, whereby the sum paid equates to the damage a bike does to the roads. A typical bike weighs 20lb, a motor car say 2000lb.'

What an excellent idea! A bike weights roughly 10kg and a car 1000kg. As the damage is a non-linear function of axle weight, roughly a fourth power law, then the car tax would be about 10^8 of the tax on a cycle. I shudder to think what the road tax on a truck would be on your basis.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/01/2022 19:47:15:…

I would suggest that all road-users be taxed in proportion to the amount of disturbance they cause to the reasonable progress of others.

MichaelG.

Tongue in cheek?

Who is to say what is reasonable?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by ega on 08/01/2022 11:19:07:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 07/01/2022 19:47:15:…

I would suggest that all road-users be taxed in proportion to the amount of disturbance they cause to the reasonable progress of others.

MichaelG.

Tongue in cheek?

Who is to say what is reasonable?

.

By legal definition: “The man on the Clapham Omnibus”

MichaelG.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I would think a significant proportion of cyclists are also car drivers so already contribute. The disruption being caused by simply painting a cycle lane on a road and blocking roads to cars with Low Traffic neighbourhoods is huge. My mother in law has been barricaded into her estate by a series of barriers, the traffic has not disappeared, it has just moved elsewhere so traffic jams prevail on the routes that are available. Cyclists and walkers are pleased with the hit to drivers, I just hope they are still able and willing to cycle and walk when they hit their nineties.

Mike

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