High Speed Bench Drill?

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Hi, does any have experience they can share on hi speed bench drills particularly modern (proxon) vs traditional Pollard/Herbert ie old proper drill presses. I will be using it to supliment my belt drive bridgeport which has, like me seen better days when used at high speed.

thanks

Barry

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

What speeds and what size drills are you looking for?

I have a modern Amercian made Cameron model 214 drill press with a speed range of 1000 – 30,000 rpm that I use for my clockmaking. Its an excellent machine that easily drills holes down to 0.3mm. Cameron claim you can go smaller than this but have not tested this myself. Not much use for anything above 2mm though.

**LINK**

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

There's a little Proxxon drill press which is best avoided.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

We have about 6 of those little Proxxon drill presses for PCBs. Some are mains powered, others use a brick adapter. I don't particularly recommend them. The chucks are low quality and there is a lot of slop in the mechanisms.

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Barry Smith 4 on 22/04/2022 12:43:56:

Hi, does any have experience they can share on hi speed bench drills particularly modern (proxon) vs traditional Pollard/Herbert ie old proper drill presses. I will be using it to supliment my belt drive bridgeport which has, like me seen better days when used at high speed.

thanks

Barry

How "high speed" do you need?

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

I have a Proxxon TBM220 which has three speeds – 1,800, 4,700 and 8,500 RPM, although to be honest I have never needed to use its top speed. Using the included collets (which don't go below 1mm) isn't very convenient, but the nose is threaded 3/8" to take a 0.5-6 mm screw-on chuck, and Proxxon sell a decent Rohm chuck for it.

(I also have a 10mm Rohm chuck which would theoretically let me drill 10mm holes in aluminium on the slowest speed, but it seems a bit unkind on a tiny machine with an 85W motor to try this.)

As a comparison, it seems to be at least as rigid as my Unimat SL in drill mode (both are more than rigid enough for small drills), and can go faster than the Unimat's 6,000 RPM.

Brian G

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Thanks for these useful comments looking to be able to use in the range 3000 to 8000 for sub m3 holes in alloy and steel. I have been making do with my bridgeport with belt drive head but it does not like going more than 2,000 rpm, or at least my ears don't like it. Ideally a high speed head for my F3 Aceria would be nice, but almost impossible to find, hence deciding to look at alternatives solutions. I do like old iron, but just a little concerned wrt wear on the spindle bearings but I guess that means trying before buying, which is a good maxim.

Barry

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by bernard towers on 22/04/2022 18:55:44:

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

Bernard,

How much is one ‘elf power’, compared to Brian G’s 85W Proxxon?🙂

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by bernard towers on 22/04/2022 18:55:44:

Could you fit a elf powered drill head to the Bridgeport that way you still have X and Y movement?

Or possibly an epicyclic speed increaser like the one offered by Hemingway Kits, that would give you up to 6,000 RPM without running the mill beyond 2,000?

Brian G

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A sensitive feed is an important part of a high speed drilling spindle, sub millimetre drills need a high speed and sensitive feel to avoid breakage, the sensitive feel is probably more important than the optimum speed which can reach extremely high levels for non ferrous materials.

Mike

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Problem with the hem speed increaser is its reverse rotation, but I have some half finished drawings for one that travels in the right direction, watch this space!!

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Thanks all very useful. As always the requirements expand as thinking if I go down the speed increaser / self powered route I might include some milling with small end mills. So I need to steer away from chucks. I have seen some planetary speed increasers with two 10mm shafts for less than £40 but not sure re bearings and what the tir would be when fitted with an er chuck. Obviously the main gearbox would have to be located as per the hemingway kits model. Not too concerned re reversing as all my Mills are on vfds.

Barry

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

As Mike mentions, the beauty of a proper high speed drill is that you can drill small holes with the pressure of one finger. If your Bridgeport quill lever delivers that OK, if not then you buy a lot more small drills.

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

Posted by Mike Poole on 22/04/2022 21:31:28:

A sensitive feed is an important part of a high speed drilling spindle, sub millimetre drills need a high speed and sensitive feel to avoid breakage, the sensitive feel is probably more important than the optimum speed which can reach extremely high levels for non ferrous materials.

Mike

Chuck Fellows (RIP) described a small sensitive drill table and I based mine on his design.

It uses a linear bearing for the vertical slide. The screw holes are spaced to accept a Myford vice and extra counterweights are available to maintain a neutral balance. It mounts on the milling machine table or in the main vice easily. It may not suit Barry's requirements for the high speed but Mike mentioned a very valid point about sensitivity.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

Edited By steamdave on 23/04/2022 12:50:15

Edited By steamdave on 23/04/2022 12:51:13

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

That’s really nice Dave.

[egaParticipant @ega]

steamdave:

When I saw your drill table I immediately thought that it could be incorporated into GHT's UPT instead of the original minidrill design.

Can you point me to details of your own or Chuck Fellows design, please?

[steamdaveParticipant @steamdave]

ega

Send me a private message with your email address and I'll send you all the info. There is too much to put here.

Dave
The Emerald Isle

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Steamdave, very nice and a good solution to part of my conundrum. Just need to look at getting the spindle speeds up.

Barry

[Rod RenshawParticipant @rodrenshaw28584]

The points about sensitivity are well made but I sometimes wonder if we worry too much about speed. Clearly someone wanting to make 10,000 very small widgets an hour on an automatic machine needs to consult tables of optimum speeds but for less demanding requirements less speed may not be a big problem.

Think of those traditional watch and clockmakers and their bob drills and bow drills and Archimedian drills. One would need to be some sort of athlete to get more than a few hundred RPM with any of those. In one of the early MEs a highly respected author wrote there is "no speed too slow to get a good finish or a true hole, it just takes a little longer."

So if one only needs a few small holes, and has a machine that does not wobble, has a concentric chuck or collet, reasonable bearings and a sensitive feed, and is not impatient or ham-fisted then small holes are not a problem. I don't know about anyone else but I find the setting up of the machine, the marking out of the job, the clamping and general alignment of the work all take a lot longer than the comparatively few moments that the actual drilling takes,

I do like the rising table idea for small holes on a big machine. perhaps the design could be written up for MEW?

I have a traditional sensitive drill of the Edgar Westbury type which I bought from a forum member who had made it himself from a set of castings and was giving up due to age and ill health. it has done me well for small holes down to about 0.5mm despite not going more than about 2,000 RPM on the fastest of it's 3 speeds.

Rod

[DiodeDickParticipant @diodedick]

There are some jobs that need a high speed. The twist grip lock barrel in the attached pic was/is secured by 2 x 1/16" pins from the inside. Tried to drill them out with regular drill press and the bit wandered off and started to chew the Mazak casting. The Meddings precision drill put the bit straight down the middle.

Dick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Barry Smith 4 on 22/04/2022 18:07:25:

[…]

Ideally a high speed head for my F3 Aceria would be nice, but almost impossible to find, hence deciding to look at alternatives solutions.

.

This is drifting off-topic in so many ways, Barry … but I think you will appreciate JMW’s solution to a related problem:

**LINK**

http://www.j-m-w.co.uk/HJ%20Published%20ArticleNEW.pdf

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ As Magritte might have put it: Ceci n’est pas une Proxxon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Treachery_of_Images

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 24/04/2022 07:11:00

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

A project I worked on was to drill holes for vacume air holes for vacume forming tooling. After running various small drilling heads we finally came up with an air drill which was infinitely variable speed motor by air pressure and air cooled so no overheating and collets held drills true and 0.25 size drill no problem. We just mounted it on a pantograph like bracket to hold it vertical.

David

[David-Clark 1Participant @david-clark1]

I used to work at Westwind Air Bearings about 15 years ago.

They made water cooled drilling spindles for PCB boards etc.

Top speed was 360,000 rpm. They had a 500,000 rpm unit under test.

Although this is not particularly relevant to this thread, it shows that high speed drills are available and I believe they were 1/8 shank and made of tungsten carbide.

Perhaps the faster speeds of these small drilling machines /can be used by using these small drills.

[Author]

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