Hi Folks

[Jacky YoungParticipant @jackyyoung17049]

Just wanted to say hi after signing up, have just got into steam and stationary engines in the last year, live in Kilmarnock Scotland.

Looking to pick up lots of advise and tips, including what to buy !!!! thinking about either a Myford lathe or maybe a Clarke 3 in 1 job like the CL500, opinions and abuse welcome.

Apprentice Fitter Turner many moons ago now work offshore in the North Sea,

So have plenty of time to hone the machining skills.

Cheers

Jacky

[Jacky YoungParticipant @jackyyoung17049]

[Mike E.Participant @mikee-85511]

Hello Jacky,

Welcome from a recent member here.

Check out the site called……. lathes.co.uk There is a wealth of information about lathes, mills, and other equipment that you might come across, or be interested in.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Welcome to the forum Jacky.

Most folks will advise against a 3 in 1 style machine, although a few folk find them OK.

Neil

[Jacky YoungParticipant @jackyyoung17049]

Thanks gents, been looking around and I cannot believe the difference in prices for the Myfords, some look like a right pile o crap and as usual none around Kilmarnock. Closest is a four hour drive away.

Jacky

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hi Jacky,

I had a 3 in 1 (Chester Model B). It was neither one thing nor the other. Could not get on with it.

Myfords are very expensive for what is an old fashioned design. The beds on them also wear badly. I’d advise buying a second hand Harrison M series or similar.

[mick70Participant @mick70]

i have the clarke cl430 lathe.

never had any probs with it apart from speed to fast for screwcutting.

picked up a dual voltage motor to fit so i can slow it right down for screwcutting.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Jacky,

​At the risk of bringing down a heap of abuse on myself, I too would recommend avoiding the 3 in 1 machines. The overall design is really very poor, the bed guidance on a very narrow saddle is inadequate, the tailstock will suffer badly from flexing because of the height of it and leverage on its base which is also narrow, and the final major criticism is levelled at the combined mounting and drive up to the mill/drill head perched up on top of the headstock.

Apart from all that they look ungainly too and can never hope to bring the combined demands of a vertical milling machine and lathe together in that design.

​Better by far to find a decent design of lathe and later add a milling machine to the work bench.

​Others may agree with me, Carl Wilson has already said he couldn't get on with his. As a fitter/turner you will have retained an eye for these details which are important and not just cosmetic.

Good luck with your search
​Brian

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Completely agree with all of Brian’s comments. If you buy one of these machines, shiny and workmanlike as they appear, you’ll just end up with a big pile of frustration.

Whatever you do, avoid the mini lathes sold under various names. They are all but useless.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

 

Same as Naughtboy with a CL430,pleasantly pleased with it, i also have to disagree with the mini lathe criticism from others, they are quite accurately made even if they are lightweight in areas.

You'll end up spending £3k on something way too big, or are left with an empty playing field if you over analyze the machine market.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 30/11/2016 11:29:28

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

My brother had a mini lathe. There was so much play in the cross slide bearing keep, from brand new, that it was unusable. The thread form of the cross slide leadscrew was also triangular not trapezoidal. No torque in it whatsoever either. Sorry but I think they are a waste of money.

Most people will be buying a lathe from savings. So save a bit longer and buy a better one. Don’t waste your money on something that looks the part but isn’t.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 30/11/2016 11:19:35:

Whatever you do, avoid the mini lathes sold under various names. They are all but useless.

I have to disagree with that 100%; you're welcome to come and do some test cuts on mine if you don't believe me…

[Jacky YoungParticipant @jackyyoung17049]

This is driving me nuts, I appreciate all the advice and opinions above, thanks for the input.

The shiny 3 in 1s look good but I think the machines would flex all over the place under stress.

Spotted a nice Myford in Buckinghamshire on Gumtree, the guy looks to have spent a few quid on the overhaul, he has put inserts into the bed at the head stock and then had them reground I am thinking that these would need to be doweled and screwed into place, even then I think there is a chance of misalignment. what do you think?

I am tempted with this but there are no accessories mentioned apart from change wheels.

Link : **LINK**

Anyway stuck on the net and the wife's not happy

Jacky

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

minilathe. Please be more specific about size when talking about these to beginners – perhaps including example model numbers.

Inserts in bed. Looks like a previous owner had a go at it with an angle grinder to compensate for not having bought a big enough lathe in the first place. Myford is only a 3 1/2 centre outside the gap. This is fine for model engineering most of the time but a problem for vehicle maintenance and larger models. Think about what you will be using it for.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

'Mini lathe' has become the accepted UK term for what the Americans call 7×10, 7×12, 7×14 and 7×16 mini-lathes. Typically the various permutations of the SEIG C2 and C3 (including badged up for many, many companies) and the Real Bull equivalents as sold by Warco, all based on an originally Russian design…

Mini lathe was a poor choice of name as although they are not the most heavily built lathes, the 3 1/2 centre height and up to 16" between centres is pretty much typical of model engineering lathes. They do lack a gap bed, but this helps keep them reasonably rigid.

Best NOT to use the term if referring to smaller imported machines, although 'mini' would appear more appropriate to them.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Jacky Young on 30/11/2016 12:14:06:

This is driving me nuts, I appreciate all the advice and opinions above, thanks for the input.

The shiny 3 in 1s look good but I think the machines would flex all over the place under stress.

Anyway stuck on the net and the wife's not happy

Jacky

Sorry to pick you up on this but, Flex?! seriously? have you seen the net weight of the CL500 perchance?

Not only do i defy anyone to lift 130kg lathe with their own strength, but any sturdier than that webbed bed casting and you're on the industrial scale of things.

You can't see it in the picture but the underside is completely ground flat too. The dovetails on the bed are nice and smooth. 

I'd agree i wouldn't want it as my main mill, more an aside, but still the above stands. Not many pictures i'm afraid but so far the biggest and baddest stuff i've turned with this lathe it handled no problem, hardened steel 30mm shafts over 6" (using ceramic tipped tool) and widest being 6" backplate iron castings.

The Cl430/500 can certainly take it's weight on the turning side, the mill is powered by a dogclutch so you're getting the same grunt from the same motor so presumably given the setup is sturdy the milling power is just as good.

You're obviously not going to get anywhere near the same amount of purchase for movement as a dedicated mill gives you.  

Also if you want evidence that the mini lathes are worth while, check out mike cox on weebly or Neil's stuff on here or in the magazine, they had no problem getting steel projects done using them properly. 

Sorry to go on a bit, but i think like i warned earlier, regurgitating too much information on the pros and cons can be tiring and eventually you have to chose what feels right for you. Alot of problems on here regarding lathes can be genuine one offs or simply down to a poor setup rather than the machine itself. You don't often get to hear the good stories because they aren't told as much!

PS. i'm surprised nothing from warco has taken your fancy? That could be a viable alternative.

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 30/11/2016 14:06:10

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Michael Walters,

Sorry to pick you up on this but, Flex?! seriously? have you seen the net weight of the CL500 perchance?

​Full marks for defending your corner, my criticism was aimed at the tall stand and weak support for the tailstock, not the bed. It would be hard to flex the bed I must agree and the sheer weight of the machine is no solution to what is basically bad design.

I'll get back in my box now!
​Brian

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Welcome Jacky.

I had a CL500 3 in 1 as my first machine & it was no light weight I can tell you, & it was surprisingly solid. To get it onto the wooden joiners bench I used I had to take off the Mill head then it still took two of us to lift it up on to the bench. in the lathe mode it did all I gave it & sometimes more, I wasn't happy at all with it in the milling mode, too much vibration, even with head at it's lowest point to allow cutters to be fitted & everything locked up I wasn't over enamoured, too top heavy.

I eventually sold it to fund my present lathe, Warco WM250V-F & am quite satisfied with it's performance, & the Warco WM 16 mill, so to reiterate other comments, get separate lathe & mill if your budget can stretch to it & despite what others may say I can't complain about Chinese machines. I bought both machines from the Harrogate 2012 exhibition, & got a reasonable discount at the time, for the same price as people are asking ( silly money ) now for a Myford.

George.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Posted by Brian Wood on 30/11/2016 17:50:04:

Michael Walters,

Sorry to pick you up on this but, Flex?! seriously? have you seen the net weight of the CL500 perchance?

​Full marks for defending your corner, my criticism was aimed at the tall stand and weak support for the tailstock, not the bed. It would be hard to flex the bed I must agree and the sheer weight of the machine is no solution to what is basically bad design.

I'll get back in my box now!
​Brian

 

Ah. Thank you. I can see very well why you wouldn't like the tray, it's convenient and they sell like hot cakes because machine mart seems to report them eternally out of stock, but I never went with the stand, Mine is raised on 4mm steel box section, then underneath that a custom built 3 metre workbench, I can happily use the radio and talk over my lathe because it barely rumbles under power now, all bolted down ofc.

I can see how a metal tray would rattle itself to pieces. Got to admit i'm not a fan of the 3 in 1 and my eye would be set, as it was then, on the stand alone lathe, the CL430, I didn't know about the magazine or the forum at that point so I didn't have a great idea about what to get at the time,

i'd probably have chosen warco if I had another go of it. I agree the Clarke cl430 as a lathe doesn't come with all the bells and whistles that the warco lathes do, no rack and pinion feed, manual change wheels with 2 automatic pitches. However, on it's plus like I said, definitely very rugged, if not very polished and a respectable centre height.

I actually found model engineers workshop on the basis that I saw a magazine in my petrol station that was about lathes/mills/engineering and I was astonished because I honestly didn't think people wrote about that stuff. I have no idea what magazine it was, and I've been back there since and have never seen it since. But having seen this I then went into WH smith which is obviously a large stationer and tried to find a magazine that best resembled what I saw that day, I chose M.E.W and stuck with it since. I'm pretty sure it wasn't M.E.W that I originally saw because the title font was definitely very different.

 

Michael W

Edited By Michael Walters on 30/11/2016 22:28:31

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

Also for mechman;

Warco WM250V, Probably the only lathe I looked at and wished I had chosen instead, well I can't have it all my way I guess.

Makes you wonder about how myford got so expensive, because some rich sop must be coughing up the dough for them at these stupendous prices for a 3 1/2" centre height lathe, hell, I'd far rather a far eastern price equivalent! for the money I could probably have a chester crusader? If you put it like that and compare the features the myford cant even get a look in surely because they were never made for that section of the market, I'm sure they originally sold for less than £50 brand new.

Michael W

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Point taken Re the “mini lathe”; perhaps my brother just had a bad example.

A lot of this comes down to individual preference and what you want to use your machine for, so it becomes a bit of a sterile debate.

There are some good far eastern machines out there, of that there is no doubt. The 3 in 1’s are pretty badly designed though, and I think in my case it was once bitten twice shy, and I bought 2nd hand British.

[Jacky YoungParticipant @jackyyoung17049]

Well gents I bit the bullet and went for a 1996 Myford super 7 with cross feed and a right load of tooling going to pick it up when I get off the rig its located in Jarrow EXITED

thanks for the input above, in the end you just have to jump in and try whatever you fancy.

Cheers

[john carruthersParticipant @johncarruthers46255]

Very nice, versatile, with loads of accessories and spares available. Good luck.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

An excellent choice, Jacky !!

MichaelG.

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

I think you made a good choice there Jacky. At least you know you have a properly designed and built lathe and many accessories can be had either new or used or even make your own.

Brian

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