Hi, and Suffolk Dredging Tractor

[Pete TitanParticipant @petetitan85913]

Rear springs info

[Pete TitanParticipant @petetitan85913]

Hello

This is my first post to this group, so thought I’d firstly introduce myself.

My name is Pete, and I’m a 25year old Model and experimental Engineer from Kingsteignton in Devon. I earned a degree in Beng Mechanical Engineering at uni, mainly inspired by my hobby of model engineering which follows in the bloodstream from my father and his father etc! I have been engineering with intent since around 1997, with Edgar T Westbury’s Unicorn as my first project (I was 11).

I’ve built a few engines to date, including:

Unicorn (mill engine), Fitzfizgig (hot air), Tich, several Stuarts – a couple James coombes, 3 Reals, 10V’s, 10H’s, S50’s and a Clayton Steam Lorry in 2″ including all the extras – brakes, steering mods boiler mods and a gearbox (which make a days steaming pulling me and a couple others around no problem – and I’m just shy of 17stone!

Anyway, my main purpose for posting is that I’m looking to my next project, which will be a Suffolk dredging tractor as I have to admit I fall into the category of ‘love’ rather than hate. I have the drawings and a fair whack of the material for it.

My question goes to anyone who has built one – The drawings aren’t exactly crystal clear!

what’s the arrangement with the rear springs and axleboxes and subframes? Are the subframes hinged only at rear most end (via the subframe support bars) and supported from collapsing by springs against axleboxes? Are the springs just floating on the axleboxes? Also are the springs reduced in thickness from 3/4″ at the eye end to go in rear spring hangers alongside the subframe support bars (looks like they’d be reduced to about 1/2inch) and at the other (flat) end reduced to about 1/2 inch to slide into the slot in the other spring hangers?

Also the dotted outline of the engine columns on sheet 3 show the front end of the subframes supported by the 2nd shaft and then the columns fixed again cross member ‘2’. Surely this would render the whole subframe solid and therefore render the springs as dummies?

Or am I missing something?

I apologise about the essay of a post, but thought I would kill two birds with one stone (introduce and ask a question all in one post)

I look forward to any comments and hope as a member I can offer advise to others.

Kind regards, Pete

[John ThorneParticipant @johnthorne49048]

Hi Pete

I also fall into the category “love”

I am building the dredging tractor.I do not have the drawings but I do have the ME’s that cover the construction. The spring hangers are made from 1 inch square box section with a wall thickness of 1/8 so this will give the internal measurement of 3/4 inch.The springs leaves are made from 3/4 inch x 1/8 inch flat mild steel so should fit without reducing the ends. The sub frame is supported at the front end by the 2nd shaft which runs in 2 brackets bolted to the back of the engine columns. at the rear end there are 2 slotted links each side going from the spring hangers down to the sub frame. This will give limited movement but I think they are more like dummy springs as there will not be much movement coming from 4 or 5 leaves made from 1/8 thick mild steel. There are some really good photos in the archive at station road steam of the Suffolk. I have alter the sub frame to suit the materials had to hand.Progress so far Fully working engine, main frame,transmission, rear wheels and springs and front axle and wheels. I hope to fit twin winches. The biggest stumbling block will be the boiler. Still I have a long way to go before I need that.

happy xmas

John

[Brian Dickinson 2Participant @briandickinson2]

HI,

 

I made a one in the late 80’s. I had the same problem of decision making and so wrote to Mr Haining.

 

His reply was that they were ‘solid’ made so as to give very little if any springing at all.

 

The whole assembly works well.

 

The ends are reduced to fit into the slots.

 

In the model engineer series it gives a companies name for the gear set, i am not sure if they are still around?? But the gears were well made. If you have trouble try SH Muffets who have an extensive range of gears. http://www.muffettgears.co.uk/

 

In all i enjoyed my Suffolk, which i sold with the proceeds making me a double brick garage, which i now use as my workshop. Someday when i finish my 4″ Durham i will probably make another Sufflok.

 

Brian

[Pete TitanParticipant @petetitan85913]

John, thanks for the reply – only after I clicked send did I realise that 1 – (2 x 0.125) was 3/4 and would hence fit in the internals of the box section.

 

Thanks for clearing up my question regarding support at 2nd shaft. I can’t see the slotted link at the rear and assume in missing something with regards to how the rear of the subframes / springs attach. (I can picture it in my head, but logic is suggesting that the rear most end of the rear spring will need the eye reducing in width.)

 

As for 4 / 5 leaves – The drawing shows 3leaves for the rear springs and 4for the front (?)

 

Sounds like you’re a fair way along with your model. I’m gonna get the chassis started on mine just after the new work bench is finished (Christmas Project!)

 

What is troubling you with the boiler? My boiler is about 70 % complete. Made in copper instead of steel. 10gauge being my choice. (since we don’t need to equate for wastage!) It’s a fairly lumpy kettle, but with careful forethought and kawool and brick hearth setup on the workmate it’s going together quite nicely. All done outside, so won’t be doing much to the boiler now until the weather settles.

 

My Thoughts at the moment are whether the make the boiler ends flat as per drawings (but obviously flanged for solder area) or whether to try and make them dished as per gas bottle ends. Train of thought being if I make them dished I wouldn’t need the stays.

 

I’m quite looking forward to getting on with the main tractor, but can see many little alterations to the drawings – several things look to be sloppy. Like the circular die blocks – easy to make, but I can see the single point contact in the links giving an annoying clicking through wear after relatively short run time.

 

Anyway, I should be in the workshop, cutting metal, not at the computer!

 

Merry Christmas

 

Pete

[Pete TitanParticipant @petetitan85913]

Posted by Brian Dickinson on 24/12/2011 04:34:24:

 

In the model engineer series it gives a companies name for the gear set, i am not sure if they are still around?? But the gears were well made. If you have trouble try SH Muffets who have an extensive range of gears. http://www.muffettgears.co.uk/

 

I bet they won’t come cheap! I was looking at making my own – I know it generally take me around 2minutes a tooth the cut, rewind, index, and start next tooth. Drawn out process but It’s not a race and I get an amazing amount of satisfaction from gear making (unless I miscalculate the indexing amount and end up with a really wide tooth at the end!)

 

By the fact you’re thinking of building another, I’m assuming it was a great little engine when finished?

 

Merry Christmas,

 

Pete

[Brian Dickinson 2Participant @briandickinson2]

I really enjoyed it. My dad thought i was nuts when i sold it. But i gained a better worshop and space for the car.

 

No they probably are not cheap and if you can cut you own then it will save you loads.

 

When i made mine i had little experience of making things and the whole set was £100.

 

I have heard a lot of different comments on the model, but i enjoyed and as far as i am concerned it was all that mattered.

 

Kids thought it was great too.

[FlywheelParticipant @flywheel]

Hi Pete,

if it is of any use to you I have for disposal volume 146 of ME [1980] which includes the 11 part series by John Haining on the Suffolk Dredging Tractor?

 

Merry Christmas

 

Peter

[Pete TitanParticipant @petetitan85913]

Posted by Flywheel on 25/12/2011 10:33:53:

Hi Pete,

if it is of any use to you I have for disposal volume 146 of ME [1980] which includes the 11 part series by John Haining on the Suffolk Dredging Tractor?

 

Merry Christmas

 

Peter

Good evening to you. And seasons greetings!

Thank you very much for your offer. I’d be interested in having a flick through the articles to see if any more detail is given. Please message me more information, or a number to arrange something if you are willing.

At the end of the day, with bits that don’t make sense, (like this rear suspension arrangement) after a few sketches in the notebook the problem is either resolved, or completely avoided by redesign!

 

I’ve been warned this could be a fun one, but as far as I’m concerned the full-sized prototypes were all fairly unique and variable so why shouldn’t our models follow in that spirit! Besides, a little bit of retrospective design never hurt anyone and personalises things nicely! In many cases a slight tweak here and there can make for a much more durable / usable / authentic engine anyway.

 

A quote from my late grandfather was “Who’s f?!?!?! engine is it anyway?!?!” which very much complements my attitude to things!

 

Enjoy the festivities!

 

Pete,

[Allan Wilson 4Participant @allanwilson4]

Hi Pete

i noticed your posting of 2 years ago on the Suffolk Dredging Tractor and noticed you were building a copper version of the boiler. Do you have any John Haining (or other) drawings / description for the copper version of the boiler (rather than steel), or knowledge of a source for the copper version drawings / description..

Thanks

Allan

July 5th 2013

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