Hey you! What lathe? Why?

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

I bought a major fixer-upper many years ago because I wanted a lathe but I was skint. It still doesn't work so the first lesson is buy one in good nick.

I inherited another many years later, its a popular model but parts for a 1942 machine are not easy to get. Second lesson get a warranty if possible.

However an old machine does not depreciate much if you look after it. I noticed references to rust above and the third lesson from my experience is to invest in a good rust inhibitor, and a good environment, i.e. keep it dry and relatively warm so it never gets condensation on it.

Some of these points are contradictory, but its not that hard to see where your needs are, and if you have the cash you could be making a life-time investment, i.e you will never need another if it is properly specified.

Good luck and don't be dissuaded.

[Liam CookParticipant @liamcook40712]

Still awake Howard, just

Thats really interesting, . Especially about the rust my garage come shop is dry except for 2 small corners on the floor which suffer a little with damp, but I've a mini in there from the 70s which has sat for 5 years with no additional rust, despite all the bare metal so it's good enough (I hope). Nothing a bit of blue won't keep right with a light coat of oil, even WD40 isn't bad as long as its applied a few times a year.

When its my turn I think I'll get a slightly beaten up, second hand one, can't be doing with absolutely pristine things, makes me feel bad getting them dirty or dinging them! Like the satisfaction of fixing things as well, not absolute beasts of a job as they sap too much time for the reward, but changing bearings, cleaning back and painting, fixing small issues.

For reference, heres the ol shop, its changed a lot since here, electrics been run throughout and its a lot tidier, this was mid project running all the electrics in and building the worktop and shelves. Eventually a lathe will go where that toolbox is and I'll bring the worktop out another few hundred mil. It looks really narrow because its just over 5 meters long

[JAParticipant @ja]

Liam

I caught the start of your posting just before going out to be vaccinated.

I am not surprised that you do not know what you are going to make on the lathe. I was the same. Even if you don't really know the size of the lathe required, as Andrew says, buy the best you can afford. If the lathe is too large or too small it will be easier to pass it on to someone else. Don't get sucked by the arguement that you can do small work on big lathes. Could one make a small striking clock on a 15" Dean, Smith and Grace?

I think the most important items with a workshop are good neighbours. Mine are and I occassionally do jobs for some of them. However I would never consider getting a cheap noisy air compressor.

As for what I have had: I bought my first lathe from a friend at work. It, a pre-war Myford, had been his father's. It took a lot of cleaning and setting up but performed well very a few years. I managed to sell it to a work colleague and used a bonus from work to buy a refurbished Myford S7. This was later traded in for a top of the range Myford when I had the money and just before the company changed hands. It has done everything asked of it over the last ten years. I am now about to supplement it with a smaller lathe.

Are you aware of the website lathes.co.uk?

JA

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Liam Cook on 06/02/2021 14:26:00:

…

When its my turn I think I'll get a slightly beaten up, second hand one, can't be doing with absolutely pristine things, makes me feel bad getting them dirty or dinging them!

…

An advantage of Far Eastern machines I feel. I guess most of us have a few tools kept for best that never get used, and I have a friend whose entire workshop is mostly for show.

I'm disinclined to 'improve' well-made tools in case I spoil them. No such inhibitions about altering my collection of inexpensive machines. At the moment on the back page of ME & MEW Home & Workshop Machinery are advertising "Chris Moore's actual lathe", never used, a Big Bore 3000rpm Connoisseur, yours for only £14,000 + VAT. I'd be too scared to use it!

Dave

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

I bought my first lathe in the 1970s for £50; It was an Edgar 5in model from the 1920s. It came with a motor to replace the treadle and I used it for a few years for the restoration of a vintage car making things like shackle pins and skimming brake drums. Later I replaced it with a UK made clone of the Atlas 10F from about 1950. I initially used it for vintage car work and later for model making, clock making, and (for brownie points) for household repairs. It is like a slightly bigger brother to the Myford being of similar design.

For a while I had a far eastern 9×20 lathe as well but needed the room for a milling machine so one of the lathes had to go and I chose to keep the Atlas which is still in use.

If I was going to replace it I would go for a new Chinese lathe.

Russell

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 06/02/2021 15:20:52:

An advantage of Far Eastern machines I feel. I guess most of us have a few tools kept for best that never get used, and I have a friend whose entire workshop is mostly for show.

I'm disinclined to 'improve' well-made tools in case I spoil them. No such inhibitions about altering my collection of inexpensive machines. At the moment on the back page of ME & MEW Home & Workshop Machinery are advertising "Chris Moore's actual lathe", never used, a Big Bore 3000rpm Connoisseur, yours for only £14,000 + VAT. I'd be too scared to use it!

Dave

I would want more lathe than that for £14000 + VAT ! Bloody hell someones bought it!!!

Tony

 

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 06/02/2021 15:59:06

Edited By Tony Pratt 1 on 06/02/2021 16:00:20

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Just a gentle warning. Six months after getting whichever lathe you choose, you will discover a desperate need for a mill.

[Henry ArtistParticipant @henryartist43508]

Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 06/02/2021 20:16:56:

Just a gentle warning. Six months after getting whichever lathe you choose, you will discover a desperate need for a mill.

+1 what he said.

So very, very true.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 06/02/2021 20:16:56:

Just a gentle warning. Six months after getting whichever lathe you choose, you will discover a desperate need for a mill.

If you get a good swivel milling slide and don't have work requiring cubic inches per minute metal removal, you can find your plans to buy a mill keep getting put back because you work out how to do what you want with what you have.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Four of 'em at present! In order of what I have or have had:

1) E.W. Stringer 2.5 inch ctr ht, BGSC and reading the lathes.co site, I found it has all but one of the originally-offered accessories inc. change-wheel , boring-table and vertical slide (for which I made a vice). The missing item is the change-wheel guard.

Second-hand, bought by my Dad from a work colleague, for my 18th birthday, 2 years after I'd joined the society of which I am now the second longest-serving member. I still have it but it needs the worn spindle and headstock journals overhauling.

'

2) IXL-badged Erhlich (German), –

– 6 " X (24 " ?) BGSC, power cross and long feeds, all change-wheels, 3,4-jaw chuck, etc. The 4-jaw was a combined faceplate and chuck, simply by removing the jaws.

It was acquired my society and installed in its rented workshop for members' use until the Uniform Business Rate rendered the rent, as sub-tenants, unfeasible. I bought the lathe and a Drummond hand-shaper from the club, and still own and sometimes use the shaper. The lathe lived with me for a while until I moved home, then it was used by an other group in which I became involved, until supplanted by a Harrison L5.

Later, I donated it to Lynton & Barnstaple Railway workshops as I thought I had no obvious room for it. Oh hindsight – that were a big mistake – it was a good machine and I managed some pretty impressive work on it, though I never managed to identify its spindle taper.

'

3) Atlas or Sphere –

– one was more or less a copy of the other and I forget which way round or which I had. About 3.5" ctr-ht, BGSC. The powered feeds were operated by a hand-wheel in the oddest of places, below the back end of the saddle. Very safe!

'

4) Drummond Flat-Bed-

– whose features suggested it was transition model to an early 'B'-type. It came with a curious angle-plate I discovered was an accessory for the Round-bed, so I gave it to a club-member who owns just such a lathe! I never fully restored the machine and eventually sold it on. It was on its original stand but some un-thinking past owner had needlessly cut the treadle journals off, preventing ready restoration to original.

';

5) Myford ML7.

Yep – I'd joined the Myford fan-club! The poor thing was bolted to a massive timber bench, but via a strange cast-iron "sauce-boat" of unknown original purpose, with no machined facings for machine-tools.

Since then I have treated it to all sorts – new Myford 1ph motor, proper Myford cabinet and raising-blocks, change-wheels, a QCTP, etc.. Later, a Newton-Tesla 3ph kit which cured one problem straight away. The original motor made the cabinet resonate loudly, which worried me as I lived in a 1980s end-of terrace with thin party-walls and the lathe was in the kitchen. With the 3-ph, it runs very quietly indeed. I kept the 1ph motor as a spare. I've moved again since, to a home with proper, secure concrete shed.

I was using it only today, screw-cutting at that.

.'

6) Harrison L5 –

That mentioned above. When we were "managed out" of the site and our small workshop there, it was given to me. Well-equipped with 3, 4-jaw chucks, faceplate, etc.

I've treated this to a boring-table I have yet to fit, bought a load of hefty spares including a collet-chuck and collets. Also a Newton-Tesla 3ph conversion, with the motor above the headstock so the machine would go back against the workshop wall. In lowest gearing it will rotate at about 70rpm and can give a beautiful fine feed.

.'

7) Axminster Tools "Micro lathe" –

– bought it about 3 years ago, and though it's in a nominal place in a corner of the kitchen I have yet to set it up and start using it! I may copy the EW and place it on a trolley, as a small machine I can use indoors for fine work in mm, and in comfort.

.'

So 7 lathes of which I still have the EW, ML7, Harrison and Axminster.

PS _ I forgot. I once had an elegant watchmaker's turns, and also bought from a second-hand shop a strange little hand-operated lathe that might have been an apprentice-piece. I had no real use for either and eventually sold them on.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I bought a chinese lathe in the early/middle 90s. I had only used a very old lathe to make a couple of bushings/collars previously, but was quite mechanically minded. Lathe was new (I realised I might get something that needed more remedial work than I could easily manage, at the time). Limited facilities and slow work, along with inexperience with a lathe, led me to only make simple parts mostly. I didn’t get on well with it.

Second lathe was bought when I picked up something else from somewhere. Can’t rightly remember what I was collecting, but the fellow had a few other things on offer. One was a Raglan LJ lathe, on a stand and it had a QCGB (quick change gearbox). It was winched up the lorry ramps and cost me £100 (or maybe a bit less). It was stored away and eventually rebuilt (much later) to replace the chinese lathe as it had so much more going for it – variable speed, higher speed, QCGB, power feed on both axes, a proper lead screw (half nuts) and separate power drive. Altogether streets ahead of the chinese lathe in almost every way. Only possible negative was a slightly smaller swing (but has never been an impediment).

My current lathe – a Raglan 5” – was bought only when I found a good one – at my leisure – It was simply a much improved version of my Mkll LJ version. Beefed up in several areas (there are a few weak points with the LJ). Apart from the extra strength, the main points are the more powerful motor, the auto trip on the long travel, the slotted cross slide with rear parting post. It was accompanied by two good quality chucks and several other useful accessories/tooling and did not cost anywhere near the earlier new chinese lathe or any decent myford.

I always wanted more than a 3 1/2” centre height so a myford was never considered, really. The Raglan was almost twice the cost of a myford, when new, because of the product quality and ability. They now sell for probably half of what people will pay for a myford. The lathe also runs from a VFD, as well as having its mechanical variable speed.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I have four lathes, a Myford ML7-R which was bought new in 1979 and has since had a Super 7 cross-slide and top-slide fitted, so it's a Super 7 less gearbox and clutch. Then there is a Colchester Student, ex-St. Thomas' Hospital medical engineering department and still in superb condition. I also acquired a Colchester Bantam 2000 which I have repaired since some clown, not me!, managed to topple it off a pallet. I have never used it but have repaired it over the last few years although I think it has had a hard life given the excessive wear on the slide screws that I replaced. I also have a Myford ML10 which came from a late colleague's estate, again I have never used it and have no wish to as I consider it a very poor design and wouldn't recommend this British made machine to anyone having examined its constructional features.

I have to say that as a lathe the Student walks all over the Myford, but only as a lathe. The Myford is a complete machining centre upon which I have accomplished many operations from milling, gear-cutting and slotting key-ways etc. before I acquired other machines for the workshop. It is a complete machining centre within itself and has had many accessories and attachments designed for it by some very clever people over the years, many of which I have made, and I would not part with it for all the tea in China! The Student does all the 'heavy lifting' in the workshop and with an Ainjest rapid threading attachment makes screw-cutting a doddle and I screw-cut every thread whenever practicable.

However, all that being said, if I were to be starting all over again I would probably be tempted to start with a Myford Super 7 or ML-7R because there are some good examples to be had in pristine condition having been owned by very fastidious people and little used, but there is obviously a lot of junk out there. I would never consider a Colchester or Harrison etc. unless I could be certain it had been very lightly used by a private owner. The rational being that as these machines pass from owner to owner over the years they can only wear and deteriorate so I think I would rather buy a new Far Eastern machine. Again, only a personal opinion, but I think there is lot of xenophobic nonsense spoken about 'Cheap Chinese crap'. Everything that I have of far eastern origin has performed perfectly satisfactorily, from a Nu-Tool pillar drill which has given good and accurate service for almost 40 years to a Vertex dividing head and rotary table which have proved to be indispensable. Not everything that was made in this country was of the highest quality, i.e. the ML10, and not everything that is made in China is crap.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter for what it's worth. In the end you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Edited By Chris Crew on 06/02/2021 23:18:29

Edited By Chris Crew on 06/02/2021 23:24:35

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Chris, after hearing some of the problems people have had with new Chinese machines on this forum, it's a little unfair to say that those people are xenophobic for expecting a new product to be fit for purpose on arrival, vertex is Taiwanese so doesn't really fall into what most consider cheap Chinese.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Hi Liam

To start with the last part of your question first:

Why – because I planned to build a traction engine ( still planning that many years later and yet to get started! )

Which lathe – there are lots but I don;t feel quite so bad about it having read some of the posts here.

My first lathe was a Myford ML7 – about 40 years ago. It was an ex-display model, never powered up. It fitted my budget, apart from the things needed to run a lathe – motor, tools etc. and what to my mind was about the right size for the available space ( at the time ) and my very much undefined requirements. I did look at the second hand market but lathes were not plentiful ( in Western Australia ), mostly clapped out and way over-priced. I still have the lathe and have used it for making all sorts of bits and pieces – apart from the traction engine. All subsequent lathes were brand new.

The second lathe was a bit of a flight of fancy – a Sieg C3 – the idea was to have separate imperial and metric set-ups. Totally unnecessary of course. Lathe itself is fine and now well set up with accessories ( as is the Myford ).

Main issues with the above were limited diameter through the spindle, bed length and screw cutting. Later addressed on the Myford by the addition of a screw cutting gearbox.

A couple of decades on and planning toward retirement all of the above problems were addressed by the purchase of a large ( by hobby standards ) Chinese gap-bed lathe. Basic specs – 1 m between centers, 400 mm swing, 58 mm through the spindle, 3 ph 7.5 hp motor and all up weight ( it has an integral cast iron base ) of close to 2 tonnes. This is an industrial lathe and built to much higher specs than most of the small hobby lathes. Biggest problems, starting with installation, are size and weight. You need to have room for the lathe, including getting it through any doors, and a substantial concrete floor to sit it on. Everything that goes with it is also heavy. My 250 mm grip-tru style chuck with its D1-6 backplate weighs in at close to 40 kg, I can still lift it ( just ) but would not be able to manouvre it into position without additional lifting assistance. Something worth considering as the years go by.

The others are little lathes picked up along the way. A C0 baby lathe. Cowells ME 90 and a bunch of Taig ( = Peatol ) lathes. The last purchased because they are modular and easily adaptable for special operations, e.g the fitting of a high speed spindle in place of the standard headstock. The Cowells is just nice to look at (as well as to use ).

There is also a watchmakers lathe, also ex China but generally marketed under brand name from Germany. Useful for hand work although it also has many of the standard lathe facilities.

The small lathes are more easily stored and can be used indoors when the workshop is too hot, too cold or too unfriendly.

If I were starting again I would still probably start with something like the ML7 ( or preferably its much later cousins ). If starting with a plan to do bike or car work I would aim for something a little larger but not too extreme. For most people the big jobs are few and far between and it is probably going to be more cost effective to sub these out, Remembering that everything on a big lathe – from tooling to chucks is also bigger, heavier and a lot more expensive than on a small bench top lathe.

Pero

ps I am attending regular meetings of Lathes Anonymous and have not purchased a new lathe for more than 5 years – but have lapsed and bought a few accessories and tooling from time to time.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

What Lathe? Why? – Fair enough.

Hey You! though, is a very abrupt address, normally prefacing a peremptory command, reprimand or perhaps a warning of imminent danger.

[Hubert ImrightParticipant @hubertimright59493]

It’s a question that has no answer !

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember12892]

[This posting has been removed]

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

In MEW299, an article of mine was published which in addition to the other stuff I covered, gave an insight into how I ended up with the Warco 220. What that article didn't do, was to go into, in any real depth, just how I came to buy the Warco. Hopefully, this will flesh out that article, and perhaps give you some things to think about.

I had actually used a lathe, a Portass, at school, but not on metalwork so in reality, I didn't know that much about their capabilities, or even their requirements when I started down this trail. For instance, I knew nothing about rigidity and the concomitant weight, hence the idea of a home-made lathe from pieces of bent metal was a non-starter even before I attempted it. Similarly, whilst the Unimat 1 would, eventually, have done what I wanted, power requirements was another feature about which I was blissfully ignorant. Unfortunately, the Unimat 1 had something like a 15W motor, far too low in reality! Indeed, you could say that the Hobbymat was the first proper lathe which had something like a reasonable amount of power and was of a suitably appropriate weight. But it eventually proved to be too small. Not only that, but its speed ranges were somewhat on the high side – 250, 500, 1000, 2000, rpm. I have a book, "Using the Small Lathe", by L.C. Mason in which he states that by and large, the lower speeds are generally the more useful: he, of course, was talking about the Myford he owned with a speed range of, I think, down to 37 rpm.

Although the Hobbymat was a good machine for me to learn on, what I eventually discovered was that there was a large casting flaw in the headstock, hidden under a permanently attached instruction plate. That machine was exchanged by the importers. The replacement machine was eventually shown to be cutting very slightly convex. At least, that's what I thought at the time – it could, of course, be my technique that was wrong especially as I was still in the first few years of lathe ownership when it could be said that I didn't really know what I was doing. Perhaps that still applies today?

But then onto the 220. By now, I knew that I simply did not know enough to be able to buy a good second hand machine, and I was not prepared to risk £100's on something that might be duff, and so I decided on new. Of course, there was also the thought about not wanting to import something into a residential estate which could be described as a small industrial machine which rather restricted my choice to lathes for the hobby market. I also knew that I wanted a larger machine. So I went through the mill of obtaining and comparing specifications and prices. Remember that in 1994, we did not have the variety of imports that we have today. I even wrote to ME (no MEW or website back then) and telephoned Tubal Cain/T.D. Walshaw. Predictably Walshaw recommended a refurbished Myford (who refused to take the Hobbymat in part exchange unless I bought new) whilst the only thing I can remember from the letter in ME was "Buy-Buy before Bye-Bye", a comment based on the quantity of equipment being offered for sale due to death.

And so, I ended up with the 220. Some people could not get on with it, and yes it does have its problems, but for my purposes it has proved satisfactory and over the years I have learnt how to overcome those problems. Would I buy one today? No! Knowing what I know now, would I have bought one back in 1994. Probably not as the 918 despite its poorer specification, is probably a better machine, certainly it, and its successors, are still available whilst the 220 is not. But with the knowledge, or more correctly lack of knowledge, I had back then, I would still have bought the 220.

What features do I find most useful. All of them! Ok, that is somewhat cynical. Or is it sarcastic. I never know the difference. Anyway, since buying the lathe, I've done all sorts of things on it so all the features have been used. I don't have a gearbox, so I do have to mess about with oily, geasy, gearwheels etc so a gearbox might be handy. But in reality, I don't do that much screwcutting, and in any case, a gearbox does not cover all possible combinations of threads that a machine such as mine can do. What about power cross-feed. Now that might be nice to have, or is it? Power longitudinal feed is essential, but cross-feed? Maximum diameter on mine is 200mm over the bed, or about 130mm over the saddle so in general, maximum cross-feed is perhaps 65mm. Is that too much for smooth manual facing? Dunno. I do tend to use the tailstock a lot for drilling and tapping so that feature is essential. There is a ring of 12 holes in the mandrel flange. Supposedly for basic indexing. Mostly used as a temporary lock for the mandrel so probably of little use. I don't have a cross-slide lock and have wished for one many times. (An aquaintence with the same lathe uses a nylon screw down one of the tapped holes on the cross-slide for this purpose.)

Well, there we are, I'll finish with a comment from L.C.Mason from the same book mentioned above: "So whether it is a real tiddler or a factory-size toolroom job, acquire a lathe somehow. You'll have lifelong pleasure from it!"

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 06/02/2021 21:30:59:

PS _ I forgot. I once had an elegant watchmaker's turns,

Ah yes! I pimped my turns:

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Posted by Peter Cook 6 on 06/02/2021 20:16:56:

Just a gentle warning. Six months after getting whichever lathe you choose, you will discover a desperate need for a mill.

Ah yes! I've been looking for a mill for years

Pimped this jig borer meanwhile. But I _need_ a mill.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Once you have one, you can't get enough of them. Another Pultra. A Pultra '10' which is a smaller 8mm. That makes sense!?

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

Please accept my tuppence worth along with all the above much more valuable advice.

I bought a Craftsman longbed because I had no idea what I wanted to do [still not sure !] but because it seemed big enough to do anything that might come along.

I dont make models [dont know how, and I have a short fuse ] but I found that machine perfect for doing running repairs, making odd bits and pieces and passing many a happy hour rather than looking at the crap on TV.

My advice would be to buy something, just to get started and then see where you want to go. You can always sell on and upgrade.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I dont make models [dont know how, and I have a short fuse ] but I found that machine perfect for doing running repairs, making odd bits and pieces and passing many a happy hour rather than looking at the crap on TV.

Def agree with that with my machines, although I can be patient – except that we threw out the goggle box years ago.🙂

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

A 1927 7"centre height Drummond because it was going for £20 with accessories, line shaft and ancient motor and I was a hard up apprentice. For about sixty years this flat belt machine, which can easily swing 18" in the removable section gap bed, has been able to accurately machine everything I wanted to do for models and car, motorbike and old machinery restoration. I have recently been given a very rusty old 3 1/2" flat belt Drummond which I have resurrected and now use for small parts; this is a nice machine too. Colin

ps I would rather not be known as "hey you"

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

"Of course, there was also the thought about not wanting to import something into a residential estate which could be described as a small industrial machine which rather restricted my choice to lathes for the hobby market."

I have to say that this comment by Peter G. Shaw for me raised a wry smile! Whilst I don't live on an estate I certainly live in a residential area and I hope I have every consideration for other residents, but I am now just wondering what they might say if they knew I had a Jones & Shipman 1310 cylindrical grinder at the back of my attached garage alongside a Colchester Bantam and an Elliot 10M. Nobody has actually said anything about it yet or the two pre-cast concrete sheds at the bottom of the garden that contain between them three lathes, a J & S 540 surface grinder and three milling machines of light industrial size together with a few other bits and pieces that could be considered to be above pure model making requirements.

It actually never crossed my mind that any other resident could have any reason to object to what I did within the boundaries of my own property as long as it did not cause any nuisance. Maybe I have been wrong for all these years?

Edited By Chris Crew on 07/02/2021 19:58:07

Edited By Chris Crew on 07/02/2021 19:58:46

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