Hexagon holder for 13/16 dies?

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

Do these have another name? I can only find them for sale in the US. Where might I find one in the UK?

I'm in Italy so my search engine would not give me as many good hits as someone in the UK.

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Hexagon shaped dies are not used for cutting threads, they are used for cleaning damaged threads.

Thread cutting dies are normally round with a slit and can be adjusted in the die holder.

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Buy a cheap (i.e. 'soft' ) 6-point socket and either put a handle on each side or turn it into a round 'adaptor' to fit a split-die holder?

Edited By DiogenesII on 29/11/2021 07:29:33

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

 Ir read it as wanting to hold round dies in a hex block

Should be easy enough to make one from say 1.5" hex bar or just mill six flats onto some round bar, bore a pocket for the die and add the grubscrew holes.

When I have not been able to turn a die in a standard holder I have used the round holders from my tailstock dieholder and used grips on them.

 

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:30:38

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:34:20

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

I must not overthink things..

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I used a couple of big standard hexagon nuts to make these two.

Regards Nick.

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:29:26:

…When I have not been able to turn a die in a standard holder I have used the round holders from my tailstock dieholder and used grips on them….

..never had you down as a 'Stillsons' sort of guy, Jason – I'm appalled..

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They are on UK e-bay

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thinking about it a bit more I'd probably make them like this. That way you could get a socket on the end or if in a tight space use a smaller pair of Stillsons spanner to turn the holder

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:29:26:

Ir read it as wanting to hold round dies in a hex block

Should be easy enough to make one from say 1.5" hex bar or just mill six flats onto some round bar, bore a pocket for the die and add the grubscrew holes.

When I have not been able to turn a die in a standard holder I have used the round holders from my tailstock dieholder and used grips on them.

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:30:38

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:34:20

Unfortunately I'm a woodworker not a metalworker. In the process of restoring an old bandsaw.

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:45:55:

They are on UK e-bay

You must be seeing something I can't. I tried eBay first. As most of my metalworking tools don't get a lot of use I often buy used British tools rather than new imports.

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2021 07:45:55:

They are on UK e-bay

OK, found it. Thanks.

£27 postage to Italy, and the price of the item goes up to nearly £7!

[pgrbffParticipant @pgrbff]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 29/11/2021 07:15:37:

Hexagon shaped dies are not used for cutting threads, they are used for cleaning damaged threads.

Thread cutting dies are normally round with a slit and can be adjusted in the die holder.

I had no idea that was the difference. Thanks

The quality of the fixings on my bandsaw is terrible and after many years of use, a lot of the threads are in a very poor state. I'm cleaning them all up.

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

We used to call them dienuts, only used to clean up threads.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 29/11/2021 07:15:37:

Hexagon shaped dies are not used for cutting threads, they are used for cleaning damaged threads.

I've read this many times, but never seen a satisfactory explanation for the distinction. All the hex dies I've seen have a lead-in taper, and, whilst all I've seen have been solid, solid round threading dies appear to be as common as split round ones. In either case, if you prefer a split die and your die is solid it's usually easy enough to make it into a split die. Obviously, in the case of hex dies you have split yourself you would have to use the die in some kind of die holder to make use of the split.

Did the distinction arise, I wonder, not because hex dies can't be used perfectly successfully for cutting new threads, but simply because the intended market for hex dies was originally for areas of industry (such as the automotive trade) where the need for threading tools was mostly for rethreading purposes rather than for cutting new threads and the workers wouldn't necessarily have access to die stocks but they would of course have sockets and spanners?

I note that Machinery's Handbook isn't completely rigid about it, saying hex dies "are intended for repair work".

 

Edited By Bill Phinn on 29/11/2021 13:04:16

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

If you start cutting threads with a Hexagonal die nut the pressure will burst the die nut, just clean threads with them or use to identify a thread.. They are particularly good for checking long threads and as they go slack you can tell if the thread is worn..

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Clive Hartland on 29/11/2021 14:05:03:

If you start cutting threads with a Hexagonal die nut the pressure will burst the die nut

Why is that? Is the cutting diameter of a hex die smaller than that of a solid round die? If so, why?

Edited By Bill Phinn on 29/11/2021 15:20:30

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Clive what's the difference between a die nut and an unsplit die that will make the nut burst? If anything Die nuts are longer so should have more metal and be less likely to burst.

Most of the unsplit dies that I have are marked with a tolerance and will cut a thread perfectly well without bursting and if I was working to a tolerance would produce a thread to that rather than being +/- which is what you get using a split die.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I doubt if it’s definitive … but here is the description of Die Nuts from RS Components:

A die nut, also known as a thread chaser, is used for sharpening an existing thread. It is run over threads that may have been damaged or blunted over time to correct them to their original condition. It looks the same in appearance to a square or hexagonal nut. They are easy to use and can be operated using an ordinary box spanner or set spanner. They are available in various sizes, types and threads, with this information being engraved on their front surface or face.

.

Ref. **LINK**

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/c/hand-tools/threading-tools/die-nuts/

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ and Cromwell references a couple of Standards [which presumably are definitive:

BS 1127.
For use with spanners to clean and repair existing external screw threads. Conform to: ISO 529.

Ref. https://www.cromwell.co.uk/shop/cutting-tools/die-nuts/bsw-british-standard-whitworth-hss-ground-thread-die-nuts/f/1037

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2021 16:34:04

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

I was offered some Square die nuts the other day….most were BSF n Whit…..

no use to me other than for display…..no idea how old they were…..

would have bought them just for show but the guy thought they were made of GOLD considering the price…..lol…

I have a few old tools that are just for looking at…..

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I'm confused! Why would anyone want to hold round dies in a hexagonal holder?

Hex die nuts don't need a holder, they're turned with a spanner. Convenient for tarting up crossed threads and similar accidental mangling. They make sense in workplaces that often need to clean up damaged threads and never cut new ones.

Dave

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/11/2021 16:54:27:

I'm confused! Why would anyone want to hold round dies in a hexagonal holder?

It does not take much

Say you have a damaged thread in an awkward to get to place, maybe a stud you can't get out so you don't have room to use a diestock and you are too tight to buy a hex die nut for a one off but do have a round die. Just put the round die in the hex holder and use it with spanner

Edited By JasonB on 29/11/2021 17:05:06

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JasonB on 29/11/2021 17:04:57:

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/11/2021 16:54:27:

I'm confused! Why would anyone want to hold round dies in a hexagonal holder?

It does not take much

…

If only that was slander! Can I ask for 37 other offences to be taken into consideration?

Dave

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

If you want to clean up external threads, you could use thread files. These are square, so each one provides four different pitches for a given thread form.

Some have short extensions that can be used to clean up internal threads as well, although a bottoming (plug ) tap would my preference for that..

A die nut is suitable for external threads, but a split die can be adjusted to a closer fit tom the original.

If the internal threads are beyond recall, either they can be tapped out larger for a new bolt or stud, or for a threaded bush to retain the original fastener size.

A counsel of perfection, but difficult if set up for woodwork rather than metal work or machining.

Howard

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