Hemingway engraving tool

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

I am shortly to be in need of doing some serious engraving, in building my surface / Tool & Cutter grinder.

i have Harold Hall’s book that includes his fairly lengthy dial engraving device, but have also built the Duplex Drummond M slotting device – well my version of it.

Has anyone built the Hemingway tool? If so I’d like to pick your brains please regarding the design of it.

Please would you be kind enough to contact email me on:-

mike.mjwsjw@gmail.com

Many thanks

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Easier and better to use the lathe carriage with a carriage stop to engrave lines on dials. Small engraving slides always have a working clearance that translates to movement of the cutting tool, which can be a nuisance. The lathe carriage is much more solid and steady. You vary the lengths of the lines by setting the topside.

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Thanks Hopper.

Food for thought there!

As it happens my keyway setup should do the business. I just have to arrange a three way system of stops.

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Mount it to the topslide. Do all the short lines first. Advance the topslide by the correct amount and do all the medium lines for the 5s. Advance topslide again and do all the long lines for the 10s.

It helps if you index the change gears using a piece of hacksaw blade as a ratchet mechanism. You don’t have to fiddle with a plunger etc for each graduation that way. Just turn the chuck by hand until you hear the click.

More details in my article on making Myford dials in MEW two or three years back, author byline Pete Barker.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As these tools were designed back in the days when most workshops only had a lathe is there any possibility that a carbide chamfer mill or engraving bit in the now more common mill would do the job without the need to make a tool to make another tool? Or if you have already made a toolpost spindle the same cutters in that.

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Jason

I’m fortunate enough to have a mill, and built a separate internal grinding spindle last year to regrind my Burnerd chuck jaws, using a 12v motor from the water pump removed when our caravan had to have a new one!

I suspect I can design a form of stop device, though the Drummond Ms have nothing much to attach things to at the chuck side of the slides – as they are reminiscent of a cliff face!

I am also grateful to Hopper for suggesting that I should not bother making yet another tool…! The modified Duplex keyway setup should do the trick, once I can sort a stop arrangement.

Mike

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Thanks Gents for your assistance.

One further matter is currently in need of resolution.

I will have several scales to graduate – mainly in degrees for setting the various parts of the cutter holder on the grinder when it’s complete.

Assuming the lathe changewheels are correctly set up to engrave 360 degrees (or part thereof) does the diameter of each part mean I’ll need to make any further changes the setup – apart from moving the engraving tool further away for larger radius parts and closer for smaller radius parts?

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

No change for different diameters. The number of divisions is the number of divisions. There is just more space between the lines on larger diameters.

So to get 360 divisions you could use a 60 Tooth gear as the indexer and gear it to turn at 6:1 with the spindle using compound gearing.

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Hopper

Thanks for that. I suspected that actually was the case, but sometimes a little reassurance helps, when one’s mathematical ability is not what it could be!

Gear compounding being one such case in point.

Mike

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

There was a published design for a compound gear dividing device. I bought one on a whim guessing what it was. It is currently set up for 360*. detent on 40 then 20/60 – 25/75 = 360*  Noel.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Couple pics of my hacksaw blade detent/ratchet. A piece of cord around the chuck and up and over pulley with a weight attached helps keep the gear teeth hard up against the detent in a constant position.

 

Engraving the first of the medium length lines on the second time around the circle after leaving blank spots every 5th click of the detent.

Followed by another lap to do the long lines.

 

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Many thanks gents.

Your suggestions are all very much appreciated!

 

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

You’re welcome.

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

On a slightly different tack, does anyone know how to contact Charles Woodward – who submitted an article on living with the Stent back in 2008/9?

I’d appreciate being able to ask him a few questions.

Apparent Neil doesn’t know his contact details as it was before his time as Editor, and Harold Hall is no longer contactable

 

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

The above pic I posted earlier shows the gear train for doing 100 divisions, using the 50T as the indexing gear engaging with the hacksaw blade detente. The 60T above it is part of the 2:1 gear train (60/30) used to get the 50T to rotate twice for each spindle revolution, giving 100 divisions on the finished dial.

The gear train for 360 degrees will look like this below. Not sure if it can be replicated on the standard Myford banjo but I think it probably can. Otherwise there were some suggested other gear combinations posted above that could be used also. This one uses the 60T as the indexing gear with the plunger and then a combination of 2:1 and 3:1 gearing to achieve the required 6:1 to make the 60T rotate 6 turns for every one turn of the headstock spindle. Clear as mud? Good!

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

i made a clamp piece to hold a high speed spindle with ER collets from china. This fits on to my mill as when i used my mill at high speed for a long time it soon got too hot and risked damaging the motor. I can now mount jobs onto the dividing head or between centers and still use the DRO on my mill to engrave items like a new tailstock or dial with little problem.

 

David

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Nice setup there David. Yes, I think if I were looking at engraving 360 marks, presumably on multiple dials on a universal tool & cutter grinder etc, I would be looking seriously at some kind of engraving spindle like that. Cheap as chips from old mate Ali and do a tidier job than the sideways V lathe tool I used. It leaves a burr on each and every line that has to be removed afterwards.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I have not tried it but either on here or in the mag there has been the suggestion to use a slightly springy V tool and advance it into the work at the inboard end of the mark. Then drag it out to the edge. This means the tool gradually penetrates to depth during the first 1-2mm of mark resulting in a gentle pointed end to the mark which is very smart.

Re separate spindle. Isn’t that one of the uses for a Dremel holder with a toolpost mount?

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Well with such a long string of responses. no one has answered the question about the Hemingway kit! I made one (The simpler of the two available) and it works extremely well. Some comment about wear might well be applicable if it were in constant use, but for the odd graduating job it hardly matters. It is quick to set up and gives good results.

Andrew.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

FWIW, If anyone has one of the older mill/drills with a round column.

When graduating dials, I use a Rotary Table to set the divisions, and the line lengths are set by pushing rings of various length over the round table stops.

In this way, one ring restricts the travel for the unit marks, a thinner one allows a longer mark to be cut, for 5s, and without a ring, the stop sets the length of the 10s.

The rings used most often are 10 mm and 5 mm thick, so that the 10s are 15 mm long.

Normally, I aim to cut the graduations 0.010″ (0.25 mm) deep, and rempve any burrs with emery tape.

Howard

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I did what Mike asked in his original post and emailed him.

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

That’s most kind Bernard, thank you.

Gentlemen all, you are all most kind sharing the information, and also your experiences.

I’m most grateful.

I should have left just this one channel of communication.

However you communicated, thanks.

It is always interesting to share personal points of view and it often happens that when we read each others’ contributions, some snippets frequently are picked up by those who simply read, and then get drawn into the conversation to broaden the experience for all!

Great stuff!

Mike

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

Howard

I have an Axminster ZX25 mill which boasts a cylindrical column, and not-too-secure head locking arrangements.
I have had the head swing round while cutting a couple of times! Locking it involves quite a bit of torque! Thankfully no cutters were harmed during the process. The workpieces, however, were!

Of the pair of locking bolts, the top one is pretty ineffective, and the load falls on the better, lower one.

Inevitably, caution now prevails!

I’d not thought about using my Soba rotary table….
Using a spindle tail gear train on my 1921 Drummond M was my first response, though I did build Harold Hall’s basic dividing head a few years back. However I haven’t got around to arranging a good way to fit it to the lathe bed whilst using the Duplex keyway cutting set up – which occupies the whole saddle and slides.

But I have made a grinding spindle to successfully regrind my 3 jaw chuck to c0.002” run out!

Maybe I should investigate your suggestion….

Mike

 

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

[Mike WaldronParticipant @mikewaldron61652]

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