Help with dial indicator and stand

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

Hi

i bought these items from arceurotrade and for the life of me I can’t figure how to attach it to the stand.

im thinking maybe they are not compatible.

can anyone help

thanks

chris m…..

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Is there a small cross drilled hole in the adaptor ? That should take the DTI and then it fits in the stand clamp . Good Luck, Noel.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You have got the rod going through the wrong hole The rod should go into the hole hidden by the knurled nut. The stub on the dti can then go through either of the others depending on it's diameter.

Look at the photos on the arch site here

 

Edited By JasonB on 02/07/2022 15:50:30

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Spend time, playing about with the bits until to learn how things go together.

Better still, find a local M E Club and join Someone will give you one to one to one tuition, and advice..

You will learn a great deal by just listening on "Bits and Pieces" nights.

Buy some books and read them. You will learn a lot .

Until you grasp the basics, you will struggle.

Where are you located?

Maybe, you could get together with someone of here so that you learn more quickly, and understand what you are trying to do.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Some pics of mine may help, though it's a different model:

1. Barrel that fits the hole in the stand fitted to the dials top dovetail. Stud to fit a dial with a hole bracket removed from the top clamp, which is also removed from the stand. (The long Brass nut fitted to the stud is home-made; it's easier to tighten than the nut that came with the stand.)

2. The clamp on this model has a spring loaded sleeve that has to be pulled back and aligned with the through hole before the dial barrel can be pushed in.

3. Dial attached to the clamp, taken off the stand for the photo, but that's not normally necessary:

4. On the stand. Which of the 3 dovetails used on the dial depends on the angle of the job. Getting the dial probe into position can be fiddly, so experiment with the arms and clamp to get position and angle correct.

Hours of fun ahead…

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 02/07/2022 16:27:31

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

No,

still none the wiser.

it doesn’t fit any way I do it.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You have what is often called a Finger clock.

I think that you have a Myford, so will use Imperial dimensions, although the same technique applies to Metric

It has finer graduations, but a more limited range than a plunger type clock. There are two adaptors that will fit on the the dovetail (As S O D's pictures show ) to mount the indicator onto the "monkey block" that clamps the indicator onto the long shaft attached to the column of the magnetic base.

Keep the indicator as close to the vertical column, to maximise rigidity.. If the indicator is not firmly fixed, you won't get consistent and accurate readings.

No sense in try to measure accurately from a datum point that moves about

Presumably your initial intention is to use the clock to centre work in the four jaw chuck.

(If you use it check work in the 3 jaw, you find that there is always some eccentricity, which may well vary according to the diameter of the work being held. )

Assuming that you set the clock to bear against the top of a round bar n the chuck, you centralise the clock about the bar by moving the Cross Slide to and fro to find the point where the clock reading is maximum (You should aim to set the clock so that is pre loaded by 0.010" (0.25 mm) The reading will decrease (The needle move anti clockwise as you move away from the highest, central point )

Initially it is likely that the work will be so far off centre that the indicator loses contact, at one point, and is taken to or beyond the extreme at the opposite point.

Adjust two opposing jaws until the indicator stay in contact with the bar, even if it flickers to and fro..

Then repeat the adjustment in the plane at right angles.

Keep rechecking that the clock is centred over the work. Every time that you adjust the jaws to centre the work, you are moving the centreline of the work, so a recheck is needed..

Eventually, you will have the bar near enough to centred nfor the clock to remain in contact all the time, but with a mfluctuating reading.

Remember that when you get a reading of the eccentricity, you adjust to remove HALF of the reading.

So, having set the clock to Zero (At the lowest point perhaps ) if the total reading is 0.010", you adjust the upper jaw to reduce the reading to 0.005" Probably you will need to rotate the chuck to access the adjusting screw for the opposite jaw, so that one jaw moves In and the other moves out.

Repeat in the other plane and hopefully the excursions of the needle will have decreased quite markedly.

Don't forget to reset the Cross Slide to put the clock over the repositioned centreline..

Repeat these actions until the eccentricity readings decrease to what you think is an acceptable level (I normally try to get to 0.0005" or less, but that's my method of working  )

It has taken longer to type this than to explain / demonstrate in a face to face situation, so do find a club and join.

And the books suggested will reinforce, and explain, the advice that you have been given.

You will learn a lot quite quickly., in this way with far less frustration and puzzlement.

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 02/07/2022 17:22:21

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Chris Murphy on 02/07/2022 17:05:11:

No,

still none the wiser.

it doesn’t fit any way I do it.

Where's it going wrong exactly?

In this picture,

Have you been able to:

1. slacken the big knob
2. Squeeze the knob and pointy rocket together between finger and thumb, so that
3. The small round knurled knob and it's stub can be pulled out of the clamp
4. One of the barrels/pin things that fit the dovetails will fit into either of the two cross-holes in the rocket shape

Dave

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

This proves the need for face to face instruction. to show you how to set things up.

Don't be shy, where are you?

Probably someone, near by, can come and explain in a few minutes, the things that are causing you stress, and put things together.

Being a lone wolf is doing things the hard, and possibly, the wrong way. Why risk damaging things when a few minute instruction will provide the understanding that saves time…

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 02/07/2022 17:27:49

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Posted by Chris Murphy on 02/07/2022 17:05:11:

No,

still none the wiser.

it doesn’t fit any way I do it.

To try and help – on the basis that a picture is worth a thousand words

As Jason & others have said you have the rod in the wrong hole in the top mount. The rod goes through the hole at the back ( as above) not the one you have it in.

The Dial test indicator comes with three possible mounts

A is a 4mm spigot – mounted on the indicator already ( loosening the screw in shaft will let you slide it off the dovetail).

B is an 8mm version – Dial gauges have this size spigot. Slide onto a dovetail and tighten up.

Either of these will be used with one of the holes in the top mount. B will go in the hole into which you currently have the rod, A would go in the one at 90 degrees to that

C are three sets of dovetails onto which you can mount either spigot, or possibly fit directly into the tightening bolt – I can't see from the pictures if the mount has a dovetail or not.

Which mounting point and spigot you use depends on what you are trying to reach!

Hope this helps

 

Edited By Peter Cook 6 on 02/07/2022 17:53:15

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

No I’ve tried it every way there is to try it and the spigots do not fit thru the holes.

live changed every way of doing it, these two cannot be compatible.

thanks all the same, I will send them back.

chris m….

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Take the pin with the knurled nut out as that is meant for a different type of indicator and replace with the small pin on your dti in the smaller of the two holes. The larger dia of the two pins supplied is probably the best to use as it's slightly longer

Edited By JasonB on 02/07/2022 18:15:27

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

The 2 silver spigots will not go in any hole on the stand.

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

Thanks Jason, but as I keep saying the digit do not fit in any holes.

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

Even if I put that thin spigot in the hole that’s no good, it’s still loose and flopping about. That’s not right.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

OK. Have a word with Iain at ARC on Monday, I have the same dti but the ball jointed stand is new so may have different size holes, Iain can check fit and find you a compatible combination.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

It sounds to me that there is a mix up of imperial and metric. The metric spigots on Mitutoyo indicators don't fit the holes in older Eclipse stands and vice versa.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Out of interest what is the diameter of the pins and holes. Looking again that seems to be the duel reading dti, mine is the metric.

I have an older imperial reading one with different size pins so that may be where the difference comes from though there is usually some give and take as my 1/8" pin fits the newer 4mm holder hole.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Chris

Jasons pictures show the outer sleeve of the indicator holding part with its tapered end towards the split clamp, yours show the sleeve with its tapered end on the opposite side to the split clamp.

Could the issue be as simple as the cross holes not aligning due to the sleeve being the wrong way round relative to the inner part.

My, much older, one of similar but different design as in having no taper looks symmetrical but the holes will only line up one way round.

Generally these devices are made so the sleeve acts on the split clamp to compress it with clearance under the head of the threaded stud.

Clive

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

If all else fails should be possible to make a silver spigot (do they have a proper name?)

They unscrew from the dove-tail gripper and the thread on the end of mine is M5 x 0.5 (metric fine).

Dave

[Chris MurphyParticipant @chrismurphy94983]

I’ve tried it in all the holes all different ways,

they simply don’t fit.

I suppose I could drill the holes larger.

pill have to contact arceurotrade to sort this out.

they should tell you if they are compatible.

thanks all

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

These things can be a headache!

They are fine if you use them with just the indicators they are made for, as far as I can make out, the bars and holes seem to be of peculiar diameters, and they are not necessarily compatible with sets from elsewhere. I have added some extra rods etc. to my set to hold some of my motley assortment of indicators.

I would advise against trying to drill the holes larger! That is a recipe for clamps never clamping anything sensibly again, if at all. The only way to alter the hole diameters on something like that without resorting to machine-boring them, is to use a reamer…. but then only if you are sure there is a fault with it.

It's possible that somehow your set was supplied from the factory with parts from another, though I don't know how likely that is.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Often the holes suite 3/8 (9.5mm) and 5/32(4mm). Some have the hole in the clamp take 5/16(8mm) shaft. Others have the hole in the clamp at 3/8(9.5mm) the same as the rods in the set. A lot of indicators come with 5mm or 6mm short shaft on the dovetail adaptor. Some come with 4mm and 8mm dovetail adaptors. Its easy enough to make a new shaft to suit the holder you have.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

If you don't yet have a digital caliper, time to get one. And measure the holes and the spigots, then contact Arc with the results. They have a rep for good service so should sort you out.

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