Help with burner for Stuart boiler

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Hi everyone, a couple of weeks ago I made a burner for my Stuart 500 boiler, its been a disaster, it simply refuses to burn !

I've used 3 different wicks, new meths, fine slots, junior hacksaw size slots, and filed them out bigger, I've had the filler open and sealed, tilted the tank so meths fills the slots, heated it with a torch, kicked it, sworn at it, it's one step away from the scrap bin, it absolutely refuses to light. Any ideas ?

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Breather hole in filler cap ?

George.

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

I think you need to ease the wick up into the slots like separate wick tubes this will allow you to have some adjustment on flame height. Mike.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Is the wick actually drawing the meths up and along the length of the burner tube? if it is staying dry then it won't burn.

George looks like there is a breather hole in the lid to me.

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Yep, breather hole in filler cap is fine, I even loosened the cap off but it made no difference.

I tried getting some wick up into the slits with a pin but it didnt help, on the original burner the slits look quite narrow with no wick poking through so I dont think its a problem, its the vapour that burns not the wick.

Yes the meths is getting right along the tube, I've even tipped it so meths is coming out of the slits.

This has me baffled, I'm starting to think the meths is crap, I must admit I wasnt to impressed when I lit some on a short piece of wick, it wasnt the nice clean blue flame you would expect, it was more yellow in colour, yet its the same brand I've seen used many times for the same purpose.

Edited By John Horne 2 on 21/06/2017 19:32:08

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

There is something very basically wrong with this, today I took a short piece of 5/16 copper pipe and fed in a length of wick, filled it with meths from the bottom till the top was wet, then lit it.

The flame was around 1" high for maybe 20 seconds then it just faded away, it lasted less than 1 minute in total and went out, the wick was completely burnt out as you can see in the photo, its basically ash.

I have 3 different types of wick which all do the same thing. I have 2 different bottles of meths, both act the same way. I should say both bottles of meths are the same brand….."Barrettine" only one is a couple of years old.

I really have to suspect the meths now, which sounds pretty crazy as this stuff is bought for camping stoves etc.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What are you using as wick?

[John RuddParticipant @johnrudd16576]

What happens if you pour some of your meths into a shalow dish and light it?

What colour is the flame then?

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

First I bought flat wick from ebay for use in oil lamps, then I bought some round wick from Germany stated as used for lamps, stoves etc, I also tried pyjama chord which was suggested by a friend, all are cotton.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

It's very unlikely that the Meths has gone off. I suspect your wick. A wick should not burn if it's working properly, that is transferring fuel to the flame.

Here's a picture of the nozzle and wick from my trusty meths burner:

The wick consists of 12 fluffy cotton threads inside a woven sheath. Each of the 12 inner threads is made of hundreds of very fine fibres. The wick is very absorbent. Your wick looks pretty solid in comparison: Is it possible that it's for a different fuel like oil, or not a wick at all?

Dave

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

The last one that came from Germany is exactly like that, multi strand, soft and fluffy when opened up, and made of cotton.

I just found the receipt, it says…. round spirit paraffin or oil lamp wick 100% cotton petroleum wax burners

Edited By John Horne 2 on 22/06/2017 16:30:52

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Weird!

My wick is too short but it still works:

(sorry about the orientation!)

Odd that the flame is so yellow, I remember it as being pale blue almost invisible.

How about trying these people, who say their wick is for meths?

Why is nothing ever easy!

Dave

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Thanks dave, maybe the flame goes yellow when the wick gets burnt to much ? which would explain my yellow flame but not why its happening the wick in your link is a little too small and looks like the only one they sell, mine needs to be around 12" and 14mm dia to fit snug in the tube, the one I bought from Germany should be perfect, I'm pretty sure other people use that company for burner wicks.

Maybe I'm cursed….or my wicks are cursed…..or both me and my wicks are cursed !

I have some very close up photos of the original burner that I copied and photos of a copied burner, I honestly dont think it can be that far out that it wouldn't light, even if it was it wouldn't explain why I cant get a wick to burn properly in a piece of copper tube ! I might have just found another use for the meths ………….……hic !

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This looks like one of those products made difficult to find! Bit of a problem now I need some too. You could try http://www.base-camp.co.uk Halfway down their price list is a section on

Solid round spirit wick
The wick for food warmers, rechaffeurs, restaurant burners, laboratory spirit burners and model steam engines.

Best of all, they sell wicking by the metre. I wonder if it works…

Dave

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

That's quite a list of wicks Dave ! I'm sure that will be useful to other people as well, especially the imperial sizes.

I might order one up and get a different brand of meths, got to do something, by the time I'm finished I could have bought a copy burner from Ebay complete with wick.

Been looking at photos of burners again on google images, most of them look to burn nice and clean without burning the wick to ash.

Edited By John Horne 2 on 22/06/2017 18:25:16

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

I read somewhere that it is essential that the slots in the tube must be wider than the thickness of the tube, or it will not work. Rather that wide slots, thin wall tube is to be preferred. I can't find the source at the moment, but I think it said something about lots of cold metal taking heat from the flame and quenching it. There are several designs of spirit burners in K.N. Harris's book "Model boilers and boiler making".

Maurice

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Interesting ! I did open up the slots, in the end I used a file so their wider than the wall thickness, but I did wonder if using copper tube was the right thing to do.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Hi John. I have a Burnac Vulcan boiler. The burner tank is stuffed tight with cotton rag strips. It looks like bedsheet material. The material is pulled up through the tubes and protrudes very slightly. It was like this when I bought it 10 years ago and works well. I have never renewed the "stuffing" and have used it for many hours. I do have to use what seems like a lot of meths to fill the tank and soak all the material. Might be worth a try given the problems you are having.

regards Gary

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Just did a search for the book and it looks like the copyright is over so its available for free download……..

http://www.appropedia.org/Model_Boilers_and_Boilermaking

There's a link on that page to the download and its legit.

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Thanks Gary, yes it might be worth a go, nothing to loose by opening up the slots a bit more and pulling some material through

[Maurice Cox 1Participant @mauricecox1]

The original "Stuart" burner were definatly made from brass. The wick was a bundle of loosely made cords, probably of an asbestos nature, encased in a woven tube that kept them nice and cylindrical to push into the tube. At the tank end, the case was removed, and the cords splayed out to be immersed in the meths.

Maurice

[Brian Sweeting 2Participant @briansweeting2]

As Maurice intimated and the fact that your flames go out shows that the flame is not hot enough.

The copper tube is taking heat from the flame due to a lack of fuel supply. Open up the slots, I wouldvsiggest trying on a practice piece first.

[John Horne 2Participant @johnhorne2]

Thanks to everyone who's tried to help, I think one of the fundamental problems I have is the construction materials, I used brass for the tank, but, being the cheapskate that I am, I used a piece of 15mm copper pipe for the burner tube, which as Maurice and Brian said is taking away heat from the burner, I also think its creating a condensation problem. In my defence I only have my meagre pension coming in so I use what I have, I improvise, and sometimes, I cut corners I should have bought some thin wall brass tube !

We all get something different from our hobbies, for me its the satisfaction of creating something from nothing or salvaging something that everyone gave up on and turning it into something that makes people smile. I got interested in steam a few months back and decided to make an engine similar to the tubalcain twin cylinder/double action/oscillating engine, yes, its a mouthful haha. I bought absolutely nothing for this engine, everything came from my scrap box and what was lying around. I made a few changes to the design and appearance, I think it turned out well and it runs a treat ! here's a pic……..

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Copper is not a good idea for one of these (or most) burners, it conducts the heat away too fast. Probably the best metal to use is thin walled stainless, but thin wall brass would be not too bad. You could make it from mild steel, and it will last a few years, but won't look quite as nice. One of these burners is almost immune from burnt wicks, you could probable just use cotton wool. don't pack it too tight.

Ian S C

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