Help choosing a milling machine

[CurranParticipant @curran]

Hello,

I'm looking to buy my first "decent size" milling machine having only used micro/mini milling machines to date.

I've been reading a lot of threads on this forum which have really helped narrow down the options but I'd really appreciate some advice on which model to pick.

I'm looking for a bed mill (for potential conversion to CNC at a later date) which must fit in my garage. Size is the most important factor, followed by cost.

I've been looking at the Warco WM 18 / WM 18B / GH 18. Out of the 3, Warco themselves recommended the WM 18 but that seems to go against some recommendations on this forum. It seems some people even convert gear machines to belt machines? If belt is better I may as well buy the belt version (WM 18B).

I then realised the GH Universal is a similar size to the WM 18 and currently about £1000 more. Is it worth the extra? Is a gear head significantly more capable?

At the moment I would only be doing some light machining of ally and drilling/tapping in steel so I'm sure all will be capable of this but I'd like to future proof so I don't need to upgrade in the near future when I've got some more demanding jobs. I basically want the machine that is the most capable for the space I have available (within reason, and budget).

Any other suggestions to the Warco machines are more than welcome!

Thanks in advance!

[CurranParticipant @curran]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Thinking ahead for the CNC conversion I would forget gears and belts as the computer can't change those, A variable speed machine can be controlled by the software to alter speed as part of the g-code.

Even the WM18 is still a relatively light weight and less rigid machine so you would be better running with small cutters at a high speed and feed rates which negates the advantage belts and gears give when using larger cutters, noise from gears won't be good either.

If you are mostly be going to be working with aluminium look at ways to up the spindle speed as 2250rpm is going to be a bit slow and run times extended.

[Henry BrownParticipant @henrybrown95529]

Axminster SX4 is variable speed but may be a bit pricy but a second hand one could be within budget?

I'm happy with mine but hadn't considered making it CNC…

[CurranParticipant @curran]

Thanks for your input, and you make a very good point about the spindle speed control! Although, I can set the speed manually and still use gcode to run the tool paths as I do on my cnc router, micro mill and lathe. As I'm used to doing this I didn't give it much thought.

The main reason I mentioned the CNC conversion was because this is the reason I've opted for the bed mill over a knee mill.

As the CNC conversion is far from definite, I'd prefer to select a manual machine which is the most capable in its current form.

I assume the GH Universal is somewhat more rigid than the WM 18 as its almost 50% heavier?

It's also nearly 50% more expensive so I'm wondering if it's worth the extra as the main difference seems to be the gear drive, bigger motor and extra weight/rigidity.

[Lee Jones 6Participant @leejones6]

What did you go for in the end?

Once again, I too am looking for a new Mill.

After owning the Warco Super Major for about 2 years, I was not impressed.

It was noisy and not all that rigid / capable considering it's size.

I swore next time I'd either go for a smaller Seig type (like Jason's) or go all out for a Bridgeport.

My new workshop is not big enough to support a Bridgeport however.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I also struggled to find good sources that directly compared different mills within a similar price or size band. Reviews tend to be of a single machine.

My feeling is that when people invest a lot of money after making a decision it is common (and good for mental health) to reinforce the decision points and adopt cognitive dissonance, and it is rare for people to advertise they made a bad decision. The bad stories are usually about events associated with the individual purchase – "there was rust", "paint flaked off", "the seller was not very nice to me". So individual reviews do not seem to be a perfect source of info.

The 'specification' information that is published by suppliers does not seem to cover stiffness, accuracy, or precision. These are all very important to me. It is a real shame this info isn't available.

It seems like there could be criteria and measurments defined that could be applied to allow comparison… either by biased owners making measurments and publishing on a community website, or by someone like Project Farm investing tens of thousands of pounds (but he will get as many views reviewing tools with a $100 investment).

I think most machines within a size/cost bracket are very similar in many ways. I managed to find a small number of criteria that seemed important to me and showed a difference in the different machines. For me, an important one was speed range, particularly high speed for small cutters. This helps define the decision in your own mind and makes it easy to remind yourself why you bought what you did, and to stop kicking yourself for not buying the other thing. It is also good to remember why you bought WHEN you did… so that when prices are dropped the next week you can try and console yourself.

I have SX 3.5. It comes with power cross feed and power Z. Maybe those motors could be useful in CNC? I don't think it would be easier so I'd suggest if CNC expect to throw them away – in which case, what was the point?

Power feed is flipping amazing. That and DRO are essential now for me.

I move Z a lot (both frequently, and in big increments). Ease of dong this would be an important criterial for me and power Z is great. The SX3 has its Z handle down low, easy to access. Reaching up to top of column for Z seems like it could be a bother.

I don't think it is 'stiff'. As Jason says, small, highspeed cutters on aly would be great. But stiffness does seem to be a limitation. I recently used a very battered/knackerted Beaver (similar to bridgeport), and milling is a completely different experience on that. Stiffness was not a primary limitation!

It is very easy to work on. I've had it in many bits. So I suggest it could be easy to CNC. Adding DRO was simple.

I didn't find anyone else who has CNC'd it at the time. SX3 and WM18 are more common.

I have not needed the very long table and it gets in the way.

I feel that the more recently popular machine for conversion to CNC might be WM18. But I think SX3 used to be more popular. You can buy a kit for the WM18 type: https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Machines/CNC-Mill.

3.5 does not have a tilting head! I didn't even realise this when I made the decision. Now I realise it, I seem to wish for it all the time. Usually some work holding method negates the need, but there is one project that I'm still working out how to do. You will not want it for CNC! which leads me on to:

Avoid features you don't need. Extra features usually have down sides as well as advantages. But you often get the downsides even if you don't use the feature to get the advantage.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The SX3 and WM 18 have been about for about 17 years which is why you see more being converted to CNC, the SX3.5 ha sonly been out a couple of years at the most but it's high 5000rpm to speed make it an ideal candidate for CNC conversion

Strangely I've not found the need for a tilting head on the X3 during 16yrs of ownership and have always been able to position the work which has includes quite a few angled jobs. so am happy with the increased rigidity and lack of tramming issues a fixed head gives.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Get one with an R8 or ISO30 spindle not a Morse taper.

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