Have You considered getting a 3D printer

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Much the same as Martin 100 – built a Mendel something ages ago, complete with home-built extruder/hot end, now replaced by Prusa Mk3. Technology's moved on a bit – the Prusa knocks spots off the old machine in many ways.

I have a design for a sewing machine bobbin case that is a good brownie-point earner!

[Oven ManParticipant @ovenman]

Father Christmas gave me a Sovol SV01. Putting it together was easy, but levelling the bed was a bit of a pain. It worked perfectly printing the standard XYZ cube that comes on the supplied memory card. I have printed various things from thingiverse. With regard to value for money it is excellent, I have no regrets about choosing that model. I have been playing around with Tinkercad and created some simple models and successfully printed them. I looked at Fusion 360 and was completely overwhelmed, I needed something much simpler to start my journey into 3D CAD. The biggest issue I currently have with 3D printing is getting the print to adhere to the build plate. There are loads of parameters that can be set in Cura with regard to printing the first layer so it's just a case a learning what everything does.

Peter

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 09/01/2021 14:36:56:

Knowing NOTHING of CAD, it sounds like there would be two learning curves, CAD and then the 3D printer (Once a decision had been made on which CAD package, and then the printer to buy )

I would need a TOTAL idiots guide to both.

Howard

I had the same concerns Howard – but a friend of mine suggested that I try Open SCAD "to get me going" and that's what I did. I am now working with Solid Edge 2020 but I still find SCAD to be a very good way to design simple (but useful) objects for 3D printing. I try to make them quite flexible by defining key dimensions as variables – such that they can be simply changed to print essentially the same shape for a different use.

At first glance, Open SCAD programmes look quite intimidating but they are really very simple combinations of basic shapes. There was some discussion about 3D printed "T-Slot blanks" not so long ago – and I published an Open SCAD programme to generate them. Here it is again.

It's very simple really (I'm not a programming Guru !) and can be altered to suit any T-slot size…

//
//
// T-Slot Filler – IanT
//
L = 75; // T-Slot Length
HR = 1.5; // Hole Radius
BW = 14; // Bottom (of Slot) Width
TW = 8; // Top (of Slot) Width
BH = 4; // Bottom (of Slot) Height
TH = 9; // Top (of Slot) Height
//
//
difference () {
union () {
cube ([L,BW,BH], center=false);
translate ([0,(BW/2-TW/2),0])
cube ([L,TW,TH]); }
translate ([L/2,BW/2,0])
cylinder (TH,HR,HR);
}

And the object it creates…

Open SCAD is a very easy transition into 3D Printing – and is much easier to learn in small (but useful) steps than a full blown 3D CAD system in my view. It's free to download and I was printing my first 3D designs the same evening – and if I can do that, so can you.

Regards,

IanT

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Here's another example – a support 'saddle' for a DC motor.

I've printed several versions of these – a good example of something that can be simply done with 3D print – that would probably be more time consuming using other methods…

//
// Sadddle for DC (Drill) Motor
// IanT
//
BL = 107 ; // Base Length
BW = 60 ; // Base Width
BD = 20 ; // Base Depth
ML = 107 ; // Motor Length
MR = 39 ; // Motor Radius
HD = 25 ; // Hole Depth
HR = 3.1 ; // Hole Radius (Clearance)
D1 = 20 ; // First Hole Distance
D2 = 70 ; // Second hole Distance
//
difference () {
translate ([0, -(BW/2), 0])
cube ([BL, BW, BD]) ;
translate ([0, 0, (MR + 6)])
rotate ([0, 90, 0])
cylinder ( ML, MR, MR) ;
translate ([D1, 0 ,0 ])
cylinder ( HD, HR, HR) ;
translate ([D2, 0, 0])
cylinder ( HD, HR, HR) ;
}

And the end result…

Regards,

IanT

[Ron ColvinParticipant @roncolvin83430]

I brought a Creality ender 3 pro last February to produce components for small scale railway modelling.

For this, I found the finish of the printed components too coarse for the intended purpose.

In the future I will be looking at resin 3D printers to fulfil my original requirements.

I have found the Creality useful for producing jigs and templates though.

Here are a couple of images of items for a 1/10th scale garden railway diorama that I used the printer to produce.

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

Finally bit the bullet and bought a Creality ender 3 V2 and two reels of PLA, which all arrived today, a day early which is nice!

Just got to assemble it, then think of something to make with it! No idea how to use the thing though, but I'll give it a go, after all it's just another toy to play with.

IanJ

[Martyn DuncumbParticipant @martynduncumb88863]

Just been looking at the Prusa Research site and there is a notice at head of page saying "Currently we are not accepting UK orders due to Brexit issues".

Amazon are saying they are not currently available.

Hope it all gets sorted. soon.

Martyn

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

Posted by Ian Johnson 1 on 28/01/2021 17:28:03:

Finally bit the bullet and bought a Creality ender 3 V2 and two reels of PLA, which all arrived today, a day early which is nice!

Just got to assemble it, then think of something to make with it! No idea how to use the thing though, but I'll give it a go, after all it's just another toy to play with.

IanJ

I got the same one a few weeks ago. The first things I made with it were a bearing holder for the top end of the Z ball screw, and an extension bracket to mount the filament lower down – both downloaded from thingiverse. I’ve also done a couple of things in Fusion360, exporting them as stl files and using Creality Slicer to convert them to g-code. All very easy, more so than I expected.

Edited By Steve Pavey on 28/01/2021 20:04:55

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

3D printing things for the 3D printer! Haha

Mine is alive and moving now, not made anything yet, but I had a look at thingiverse and my oh my what a mind boggling selection of stuff!

I am impressed with the build quality of the ender 3, although one of the base rails has a slight bow where the Zaxis profiles sits, I left it alone and it seems okay for now. But I knew nothing about 3D printers until now, let's see how it goes!

IanJ

[Tony Wright 1Participant @tonywright1]

Eventually no one will build models just design them on a computer press the go button and there we have a finished model ! No skill and what have you achieved ? Before you say ,I’m not a Luddite . I just like making things with my hands . I’m sure I’m not alone with my statement . Let’s have a poll.

[Steve PaveyParticipant @stevepavey65865]

“No skill and what have you achieved ?”

Not “no skill”. Just different skills.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 28/01/2021 22:59:29:

Eventually no one will build models just design them on a computer press the go button and there we have a finished model ! No skill and what have you achieved ? Before you say ,I’m not a Luddite . I just like making things with my hands . I’m sure I’m not alone with my statement . Let’s have a poll.

You'll have the part you wanted. Made by an efficient process, freeing up time to use doing something that can't be done like that. Just like bandsawing your blanks compared to cutting them with a hacksaw.

Making things is a means to an end. If I just wanted to make things with my hands, I'd take up whittling scrap wood with the pocket knife I've owned for years

[Tony Wright 1Participant @tonywright1]

The skills required for 3d are computer skills not model engineering ! Using a band saw or a hacksaw you still have to physically do it .Carving a piece of wood is hardly engineering is it . I was Just taking it to it’s logical conclusion.Like cnc it’s the computer program that’s doing the work.

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Perhaps this has been mentioned before, but for those who already have small CNC routers, there is an add-on or pluggin for Mach3 to do 3D printing on said machine. So if you use Mach3 on your router already, you need to add an extruder/hotend and of you wish a heated bed – should work OK – most likely the mechanics are more rigid, sturdy, etc as compared to some systems reportedly needing fair tweeking? There appears even to be a CURA config file for Mach3.

Tony, re just pushing a button and no skills achieved – You have learnt a new skill for sure, and the resulting increase in capability spurns greater ventures on projects you might never have tackled.

After all, if you believed your argument, the even the lowly CNC mill should be banned!

I think this sort of tech just enables us to to more complex, interesting and challenging projects that we would never have considered 4 or 5 years ago even..

Joe

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 28/01/2021 22:59:29:

Eventually no one will build models just design them on a computer press the go button and there we have a finished model ! No skill and what have you achieved ? Before you say ,I’m not a Luddite . I just like making things with my hands . I’m sure I’m not alone with my statement . Let’s have a poll.

If you saw the things people are designing and making with 3D printing I think you would retract that immediately – unless you make your own ball races, castings and fixings.

3D printing opens the door to a whole new set of possibilities. For example, I know a retired computer programmer who is 3D printing a long case clock, her second 3D printed clock. A conventional build means choose a design and stick to it. She's been able to experiment continuously towards the final design. Incidentally, she has built a number of 'oversize' 3D printers from scratch. Someone else is printing a tracking telescope mount and I know someone else who has been producing museum models of spacecraft, including a Hubble Telescope at 1:12 scale.

One thing that 3D printing allows is rapidly and economically making objects and mechanisms that wouldn't be worth the effort to machine. I spent months on a telescope built around a premium lens by traditional metalworking, that probably cost as much as buying a complete scope by the end of it. I made another telescope around a cheap lens almost entirely by 3d printing just for the fun of it in a couple of weeks that probably cost leas than £25.

Also, if you make things by 3D printing you develop a deep understanding of the design and production processes and the material properties.

It's just different skills

Neil

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

Yes a 3d printer is a means to an end, I'm treating mine like a toy at the moment, to while away some covid lockdown hours! but I'm sure there will be a useful project or two made on it eventually.

I operated the first modern CNC lathes in the early 80's and there was a lot of opposition to them at the time, because we were all manual machinists, but over a short time we embraced the technology and introduced more machines to increase production. Different skills were adopted for the better I think.

IanJ

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 28/01/2021 22:59:29:

Eventually no one will build models just design them on a computer press the go button and there we have a finished model ! No skill and what have you achieved ? Before you say ,I’m not a Luddite . I just like making things with my hands . I’m sure I’m not alone with my statement . Let’s have a poll.

Well there is the skill in designing it in the first place. 3D Printing (and CNC as you mention it) opens up the doors to far more varied models. You are not limited to knocking out the same old designs that someone else had the skills to design 50-75yrs ago in the first place as they allow you to make patterns or solid parts that would be vey time consuming or even impossible with manual methods.

There is then another skill to learning to operate these new technologies and you don't just press a button you need to know how the part needs to be cut, with what cutter, suitable feeds and speeds etc.

Once again you need reminding that this is not just a Model Engineering forum so anything that goes on in the home workshop is welcome and even if you don't actually print the model parts they can be used for things like nesting jaws, patterns jigs etc to aid the manual construction not remove the need for it.

The other big advantage of the newer technology is that it allows a vast number of hobbyists who would otherwise be sat in their armchairs for 25weeks while the workshop is too cold and another 25 weeks while it is too hot to carry on "making" without going into the workshop when conditions are not favourable or they become physically unable to operate manual machines

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I have a Prusa MK3.

I have designed engines by making drawings manually on a drawing board, using AutoCad for 2D drawings, and 3D modeling using Solidworks.

I have made patterns by hand in wood and steel, and have made engine parts on the lathe and mill from bar stock. I have also made patterns on a 3D printer.

I have made castings and machined those.

The reason I use a 3D printer and Solidworks is that I can make the same patterns I would normally make by hand, but can make then more accurately and sometimes more quickly.

It is easier to get the srinkage factor uniform across a pattern if it is 3D printed.

So I recommend learning to do things by hand, but once you have that mastered, then using computers and 3D printers just speeds things up.

My dad was old school, and he would never consider using a computer for anything except a boat anchor.

I am required to use computers and software for work, so it is a natural thing for me to use them, and I am fluent in them outside of the hobby.

To each his own. Its whatever makes you happy.

I started using Solidworks in 2012, and not to many were using 3D at that time.

Many more of those same folks I notice now use 3D modeling, so it seems to be a trend.

I do like to be able to do things by hand, because there is a touch and feel aspect that you can't get with computers and software.

Using the CUT command in Solidworks is much like machining the real metal (virtual machining I call it), and it helps conceptualize how I will machine a part.

I also assemble the 3D components and run them virtually, to test for inteferences, etc.

If the model won't simulate in 3D, then it won't run in the real world either, so that is a helpful verification step before I start cutting metal.

I don't use a CNC, but I see a 3D printer as being very similar to a CNC.

I don't have plans to "go CNC", since I find a 3D printer much more useful for pattern making, especially with hollow items, where I can use a 3D printed pattern also as a core box.

I guess it really just boils down to time. I can start a 3D print, and let it run overnight, and in the morning (if all goes well) the pattern is sitting on the printer bed.

I can design with software faster than any other method I have available.

Use the tools you have available I guess.

 

Edit: On a side note:

I am having lifting issues with the Prusa bed.

Anyone have a solution for that.

I have not tried the purple stick glue yet, but need to try that.

.

 

Edited By PatJ on 29/01/2021 10:28:17

Edited By PatJ on 29/01/2021 10:28:37

Edited By PatJ on 29/01/2021 10:30:46

[Tony Wright 1Participant @tonywright1]

Patj a most sensible answer. I wasn’t knocking 3d just after your opinions .

Ps if I new how to program computers I would certainly get a 3d printer ! Now there’s a retraction 😂😂😂

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

I think 3D printing is part of the engineering skill set. Take a simple job, I don't change the drill chuck on my bench drill very often but invariably cannot find the taper drift when I need to. Solution – engineer a holder for the drift which can be fixed to the drill. Basically just a block with a tapered hole through it. I could 'whittle' it from a lump of wood, I could fabricate it from a couple of metal plates or I could 3D print it. Whatever route I choose I would most likely make some sort of drawing if only a sketch on the back of the proverbial envelope. Now I would suggest that drawing is an engineering skill it demands some sort of knowledge of how things are shaped and fit together it is quite possible to draw something that cannot be manufactured, be it whittled, printed or fabricated.

So armed with drawing what is the best, quickest, easiest way to make the drift holder. Now my woodworking skills are not brilliant and even if I had the right size chisel the resulting item may be a bit bulky due to the constraints of the material. Knowledge of materials – another engineering skill. Hacking up bits of steel plate and bolting them together would be fairly time consuming not to mention some sort of finish to prevent rust or possibly use aluminium. How to fix the parts together, tapped holes and screws, nut & bolt or adhesive, more engineering skills to select the best method.

So to 3D printing, still choices to be made regarding material, print orientation, clearances, times, temperatures all engineering skills needed before letting the computer loose.

Best of all of course once the printer is running I can get on and do some 'real engineering'. The final printed item is fixed to the drill with double sided tape (that may or may not be an engineering skill) . The drift holder works quite well, printed in PETG and places the taper drift Where it is easily accessible.

3D printing – just another engineering skill for use as needed with everything else in the workshop.

John

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Posted by PatJ on 29/01/2021 10:27:36:

I have a Prusa MK3.

Edit: On a side note: I am having lifting issues with the Prusa bed. Anyone have a solution for that.

I have not tried the purple stick glue yet, but need to try that.

.

Depends on which plate you are using.

If the smooth one I find diluted PVA wood glue (about 50/50) works.

The textured plate is quite picky about the Z height. I find it needs to squish the material into the plate quite a lot. Tends to give 'elephants foot' which can be compensated in the slicer.

With both plates make sure they are clean, I find that a wash with soap and water every now and then helps and use IPA (Iso Propyl Alcohol) before each print when the plate is cold.

John

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Tony Wright 1 on 29/01/2021 09:54:34:

The skills required for 3d are computer skills not model engineering ! Using a band saw or a hacksaw you still have to physically do it .Carving a piece of wood is hardly engineering is it . I was Just taking it to it’s logical conclusion.Like cnc it’s the computer program that’s doing the work.

 

Model engineering is a terrible term for my workshop time.

I've spent a bit of time designing this recently:

That's a fully animated model, and I wish you'd told me before I did it that it's not going to be suitable for a 'model engineer.' As you can see, it will use bought in parts, parts I could make but won't, the belt cover is to be 3D printed because it will give a better part than the sheetmetal one I could make, and so on. There is no way I could have come up with this without 3D CAD, as it shows various issues that weren't obvious as I went along. I'm now looking at the design to reduce some of the features to make it easier to build.

Edited By Nicholas Wheeler 1 on 29/01/2021 11:01:14

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I saw someone using Solidworks in about 2011, and marveled at the many useful features, such as the transparent views.

I said to my self "I have got to learn that".

It took me perhaps a year to conceptualize exactly what I was trying to do with 3D modeling, and a bit longer to learn how to use a 3D printer.

I gave up numerous times during that year learning period, and would yell at no one in particular "I WILL NEVER FIGURE OUT THIS &%&$%&^%^&&^ SOFTWARE !!!!!".

It was very frustrating to say the least.

2D CAD was so firmly engrained in my head, that I think people learning 3D from scratch without ever having done 2D perhaps could have an advantage.

These days, I try to leave a paper trail about everything I have learned about 3D modeling on various forums, so perhaps others can avoid some of the trials and tribulations that I suffered.

I do like 3D modeling.

I wish 3D printers were larger and more reliable.

Pattern making is an extra step on top of 3D modeling, and you have to add machining allowances, allow for shrinkage, parting lines, draft angle, fillets on everything. I toggle most of these features off when I create the 2D drawings from the 3D model.

When I started working in 1985, it was all manual drafting boards, and many slide rules were still used.

The computer we used was a mainframe running FORTAN, reading punch cards.

Things have changes a lot since 1985.

.

Edited By PatJ on 29/01/2021 11:22:53

Edited By PatJ on 29/01/2021 11:24:04

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I used various 2D drawing software packages for many years at work including Autocad, I actually started out on a drawing board at the beginning of my career. We moved over to Solidworks back in 2005 and it was like a breath of fresh air, would I ever go back to 2D……… NO WAY. I do use 2D now and again for producing pneumatic schematics but hate every minute of it.

When I was on training courses for Solidworks, they told us that people who were moving from 2D found it harder to learn than people who had never used CAD at all.
We dont bother sending our people on the course anymore, I can get someone up and running on Solidworks in a few days with no drama. 

As for CNC I dont think it is for me at my time of life, my workshop is already too crammed with stuff to consider that anyway. But I have just ordered an Ender 3 V2 3D printer which I am quite looking forward to playing with.

Not entirely sure what possessed me to buy it, but I already have a list of things I intend making with it.
Watch this space.

Phil

Edited By Phil P on 29/01/2021 11:40:28

Edited By Phil P on 29/01/2021 11:42:05

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Interested to hear you are printing patterns. I know there have been threads on here about 'lost PLA' and of course there are specialist investment printable waxes but wrt plain patterns I recently read the rough surface of a print causes problems with clean pattern removal. Do you have a view on this?

[Author]

Posts